Citizenship and Immigration committee  Absolutely.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I like the idea of a taped interview. I don't think it will run hundreds of pages because I'm not sure how long the interview is. I like the idea of the tape or the little doohickey that fits into a computer being passed directly to the person concerned. It comes back to preparation.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Well, we can agree to disagree, with the greatest of respect that I can muster, and I do. It is enough if there is financial compensation to make the system go. Currently, there's no way, based on existing legal aid compensation in this country to the refugee bar, that eight days and sixty days is going to fly.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I'm a proud member of the Quebec Bar, and I won't address the Vancouver elements. But I am aware that legal aid in British Columbia is largely inadequate to service the refugee claims. Mind you, only 10% or less of Canada's refugee claims occur out in British Columbia.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I do believe in a time delay that commences on termination of the refugee claim and initiation of the H and C, for practical reasons. In terms of what an officer can consider and not consider, it's going to be a tough call. I'm hard pressed to completely exclude all information obtained in the course of a refugee determination hearing from an H and C application.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  By instinct, I have to say correct. I'm nervous about excluding evidence.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Quite frankly, I think eight days is sufficient for the tombstone data. I think it's sufficient for the person to enter Canada and catch up from jet lag. Is it sufficient to prepare a full legal case? Unless there is a lawyer at the front end during that eight-day period, the person may well be caught by contradictions between the statements provided on day eight and the hearing date, day 60.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Speaking from my own experience, absolutely yes. It turns on the operational availability of the lawyers.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Those are two possibilities, but they are inadequate. The real deal is an instruction sheet provided by CBSA or CIC on entry to Canada included with the kit identifying the duty counsel number for legal representation. That's how it worked in 1989. There's no reason why it can't apply equally in 2010.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I dealt with Somali refugee claimants from 1988 and 1989 in their first week in Canada. I heard horrific stories. People who saved their lives by reaching our soil have the wherewithal to do it. There will be instances of traumatized individuals when that's going to present a challenge.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  It's my pleasure. Ten minutes is a luxury. I'll try to cut that in half for the committee's benefit.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Essentially, I have two issues today. First, I don't think this bill goes far enough. Allow me to explain. At its heart, our refugee system is designed to extend protection. State protection, if it's adequate, should include an examination of the question of whether the protection is readily available and truly accessible when the country of alleged persecution is a member of a group of states that provides quick and easy mobility to the person concerned.