International Trade committee  I didn't say that having rules-based trade wasn't an option. What I said was that if you want a free trade agreement to actually have an impact on human rights, then one of the things that need to happen is that you need to regulate corporate activity as well. You need to impose some obligations on corporations, and there are other provisions that need to be included in these types of free trade agreements.

International Trade committee  In that context, then all it does is provide corporations with more protections. It does nothing for human rights. So it will not do anything that.... There are a number of ways Canada could address this. They could start by implementing the consensus agreement, the consensus recommendations from the national round tables that just happened, as a beginning.

International Trade committee  To answer the second question first, no, I don't think it's an effective way of dealing with human rights issues that there be some sort of fine. I find it rather appalling. In terms of the free trade agreement, as to whether that will benefit or somehow reward corporations if they were to become involved in human rights abuses, I think it depends on what type of agreement you negotiate.

International Trade committee  Thank you for your question. I don't think I said that the human rights situation will get worse. My point really was that there is no causal link between a free trade agreement and improving human rights. The trickle-down argument actually has not been proven to be true. If we were to go ahead with a free trade agreement with Colombia, I think there would have to be, as I said, some obligations imposed on corporate investors to ensure that they are not complicit in human rights abuses and that they comply with internationally recognized labour obligations.

International Trade committee  Right now, a lot of corporations have voluntary codes of conduct. The point I was making was that in the studies we've done in relation to voluntary codes of conduct, those regimes--the codes and the social reporting that's done--are voluntary codes with vague provisions that are voluntarily adopted.

International Trade committee  No, not those ones, companies that aren't actually present there. The thing about this free trade agreement is that it's mostly about protecting investment. We heard that the trade is actually a minimal part of it. There's $3 billion or so worth of investment in Colombia right now, and a lot of that is extractive.

International Trade committee  It could be in a side agreement, but I would prefer to see it in the basic agreement. If they have all these rights--for example, the right to national treatment, and if that is breached, the right to take the state to binding arbitration--they should also have obligations. So perhaps they shouldn't have that right if they have been complicit in egregious violations of human rights.

International Trade committee  Mr. Chairman, honourable members, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity to come before you to talk about some of these important issues about the free trade agreement that's currently being negotiated with Colombia. I want to make a few points, and I'll just quickly summarize them at the beginning.