Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  No. You're quite right, they remain in prisons incommunicado, with no charges or trials, no access to lawyers or family members. Amnesty International did a fair bit of campaigning last year marking the tenth anniversary of their arrest and imprisonment, and it continues to highlight them as being among the most emblematic cases of this pattern of political imprisonment and prisoners of conscience in the country.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Yes, and they included three former cabinet ministers, some very important and influential people, who were certainly not taking up arms, were not fomenting or encouraging criminal activity. They simply were pressing for democratic change in the country, and they've paid a very heavy price for doing so.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I think that's very true. I do imagine that governments, including the Canadian government, have on occasion found opportunities to raise their cases with Eritrean officials and that there are governments who have made it clear that they expect and want to see those prisoners released, but against a backdrop where we're not really seeing a wider significant, concerted global campaign of pressure on Eritrea with respect to these and other human rights concerns, it doesn't deliver positive results.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  My understanding—I wouldn't want to say it categorically—is that it doesn't have access to prisons and detention centres, nor does the International Committee of the Red Cross. That's one of the keys, as a minimal first step, in addressing the concerns associated with the tension.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I think it's become very clear right around the world. While I don't have the details, I'm sure this is a concern with the community here in Canada that Eritrean government supporters, and perhaps even agents, are quite active. They exert pressure. I know in the United States there have been many reports of independent Eritrean journalists, for instance, working in the United States being subject to surveillance and harassment.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  How much pressure is being put on the diaspora by the Eritrean government?

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I did a little bit, but not much.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  We haven't done our own research into the practice. We certainly know of its existence. I think you're absolutely right. What greater source do we need than the fact that this is something that has been noted and condemned in a UN Security Council resolution? The UN Security Council has called on the Eritrean government to cease the practice, but has called on other countries—which would certainly include Canada to the extent that this plays out here—to take action to back that up.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I don't know the extent of Canada's involvement in that particular initiative. Clearly there are times in which Canadians have played significant roles in various UN initiatives with respect to Ethiopia and Eritrea. Most notably, of course, Lloyd Axworthy, at a certain point was the UN special representative with respect to the Ethiopia-Eritrea situation.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I do believe there is. I don't know the details, but I believe there is some UN access to the country. But access to prisoners has been a major problem. As I highlighted, we need to see the ICRC, the International Committee of the Red Cross—

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  —be given access. I'm not aware of any UN investigators or special rapporteurs being allowed that kind of access at all. Certainly, given the—

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  As has been the case globally, there has been very little attention in Canada to the situation in Eritrea. I don't single Canada out in particular here. I think it's reflective of a wider global phenomenon. No one has really been paying attention or has expressed much concern about the situation in Eritrea.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I don't think I've seen any reliable estimates of that figure. There has been some accounting, for instance, of refugees who have been killed outside the country, once they have made it across the border, for instance. I talked about the fact that 85 refugees trying to reach Israel, most of whom were Eritrean, have been killed in the Sinai over the last five years.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I think you're absolutely right that Eritrea has a very clear and well-earned reputation as a troublemaker in the region, and it foments conflicts and human rights violations and insecurity throughout the Horn of Africa. I think the pattern we see in terms of who is sending refugees back to Eritrea doesn't include the countries with which Eritrea has a particularly hostile relationship.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Certainly many of the prisoners—political prisoners, prisoners of conscience, be they individuals detained because of their religious background or their political beliefs—do include women. Amnesty International has taken up many female prisoners of conscience in Eritrea. We do know a number of instances where women have been subject to rape and other sexual violence in prison.