Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  We've not done that costing. We're not a scientific organization, but that's one of the reasons--

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  No, we've not done it, but that's one of the reasons we partnered with Pollution Probe on this modest document. We have a very large concern that there has been a lot of emphasis over the past number of years--the planning period--on large final emitters, and that's fine. I know that under the previous government there was a process through which many of those large final emitters were in a very active dialogue with the government, but in our view the whole question of small and medium-sized businesses has not really been raised.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I think it important for that dialogue to begin. That's why, as I said, we put together with Ken Ogilvie of Pollution Probe at least the beginnings of some kind of document to say we have to think about this, and you have to think about this.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Of course. I just don't think it's the time now for us, whether we're politicians, business groups, scientists, or whatever it is, to try to polarize groups and say there's more pain this way or there's more gain this way. We need to get on with it. In this respect, many of us around the table agree that there is science that is very challenging, as was pointed out by the scientists on this panel today.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I don't think we need more studies on the impact of this thing versus that thing; this is the reality, and we all have to pull together on it.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  The membership feels there need to be some flexible market mechanisms. I don't think there is agreement that an international system that would send money offshore would be particularly fruitful.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I'll just consult with my colleague. I think yes is the answer, but I think it would be a domestic one, as opposed to an international one.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Yes.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I don't see why not.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  If I may, I would simply like to add the following. If I understand correctly, Mr. Bigras, you're suggesting that we have territorial objectives or targets. I can't see how that would work, because the energy resources are scattered throughout the country. It is by chance that Quebec has electricity and Alberta has natural gas.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I will ask my colleague, Mr. Murphy, to answer.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  That is right.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  We nevertheless need to have a Canada-wide plan.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  If I may respond, Mr. Chair, no, I don't think that's true. I think what you say is very accurate, that the Canadian chamber and many other business organizations all joined in when the protocol was signed in 1997 in many round tables, discussion groups, various kinds of consultation mechanisms that were organized by the government, trying to come to some collective conclusion about what kind of plan should be there.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much, members. It's a great pleasure for us to present our views on Canada's Clean Air Act today. As many of you I'm sure know, because you have chambers and boards of trade in your ridings, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce is the largest advocate for business in Canada.