Public Safety committee  It depends on how you decide to deliver the program. There have been different models. There have been automated dispensing machines and peer health workers. In most of the cases where this program has existed, there has always been an increasing number of people who use the program being referred to addiction treatment programs.

Public Safety committee  No, prison-based needle and syringe programs in other countries.

Public Safety committee  Yes.

Public Safety committee  Yes, we have. The previous colleague, who has spoken to them before, did. When we did the access to information request, we found that this in fact happened quite a few times in the course of a five-year period, over 100 times.

Public Safety committee  We did an access to information request with CSC some years ago, and they showed I think it was over 100 accidental needle stick injuries in that period of about five years, and not a single case where a needle was used as a weapon. I can speculate about the reason why. It's because these are very valuable.

Public Safety committee  CSC.

Public Safety committee  I'm not sure. When I speak to the people at the Ontario harm reduction distribution program, they tell me an actual needle costs between five cents and ten cents, each needle.

Public Safety committee  I believe so, yes. I think it makes absolutely no sense to deny someone who would, on the street, have access to the needle and syringe program. In fact, many of the people we have spoken to said they took advantage of those needle and syringe programs in the community, but when they were in prison there was no availability.

Public Safety committee  Some people are getting infected inside.

Public Safety committee  Yes.

Public Safety committee  That's $29,000 a year.

Public Safety committee  That's a lifetime cost.

Public Safety committee  I think 27.6% was the figure I saw. That was from 2006, and I believe those rates are probably higher.

Public Safety committee  That's precisely what the systemic evaluations have told us. The risks with the concerns about these needle and syringe programs have simply not materialized. There have been no increases to institutional violence. Needles have not been used against staff or other prisoners. If we don't implement this, every passing day there are more people becoming infected with HIV and hepatitis C.

Public Safety committee  When people are tested upon admission--when they're about to enter prison--the rates of HIV and hepatitis C are significantly lower than the prevalence overall in the federal prison system. You can draw some conclusions from that, although you can't say definitively when they're infected.