Government Operations committee  I suppose that the engineers could better answer that question. There is no doubt that “critical” means that there is a very high risk that a system does not work. By 2013, there is quasi-certainty that it will not be working any more.

Government Operations committee  Yes.

Government Operations committee  The risks are more linked to the heating, electricity and cooling systems. These are the basic systems which make the building functional. If there is no cooling system, or if there is no electricity in the building, it will not be functional.

Government Operations committee  As we indicated in our report, when priorities are clear and everything has been ordered, Public Works does a good job.

Government Operations committee  The problem is deciding on priorities, making them long term and obtaining the money to finish the job.

Government Operations committee  Yes. We have picked up on this problem with regard to other projects, not only the one involving the renovation of the Parliament buildings. When you start a major computer project which is spread over two, three, four or five years, and when you have to go back every year to request new funding, this undermines the project.

Government Operations committee  Obviously, the longer you wait to do the work, the more it will cost, first, because of the increase in costs, but also because the buildings deteriorate even more.

Government Operations committee  The question of governance, as you mentioned, was studied about five or six years ago and a recommendation made. Nothing has changed since then. But quite honestly, this is an issue that is at least 20 years old. There have been a number of reports. I think it's really time, quite honestly, that the governance issue has to be addressed, because we can see that it is affecting the projects and the rehabilitation of the buildings.

Government Operations committee  We didn't look at the contracts, so I can't really talk to that. But I think it's important for the committee to realize that these are very complex projects that are being undertaken in heritage buildings. As I mentioned earlier, anyone who has ever done a renovation of an old house knows that when you open up the walls, you sometimes find things that you never expected to find.

Government Operations committee  Thank you very much for the question. Chair, in the report we mention the models of three countries—I'm just trying to find it here—the U.S., Great Britain, and Australia. In each of those cases, the responsibility for their Parliament buildings rests with Parliament. There are different models that have been set up.

Government Operations committee  Well, on the costs, Chair, in the report we note that there had been an estimate done in 2005 that the total cost of the project would be somewhere in the order of $5 billion. I think we have to all recognize that it was a very preliminary estimate done at that time. Costs have likely increased since then.

Government Operations committee  It is a huge risk--

Government Operations committee  --and as we note in the report, the buildings are deteriorating, and some of them are at a pretty serious stage. In the West Block, the risk of failure of key building systems is rated now as critical. In the Centre Block, by 2013 that risk is rated as high, and by 2019 as critical.

Government Operations committee  Parliament needs to find a credible and solid mechanism to manage buildings and projects. I am assuming that Public Works would be used to carry out the work, but it is really a matter of governance, namely, deciding on priorities and providing for the funding. I would even say that the funding needs to be negotiated with the governments and there must be adequate monitoring.

Government Operations committee  I think that this is a matter that needs to be examined. There needs to be stable funding which could be a multi-year vote for projects. Moreover, this is something that we think is needed for longer-term projects. If we always start work wondering whether or not, in six months time, we will have the money required to continue, this can have a significant impact on the effectiveness of the work and the staff.