Public Safety committee  Well, we've obviously seen this first-hand, through Brenda. Some might argue that it was a provincial situation and it can't apply federally, but I know of other instances internationally where they are using that same model. For example, I visited Styal prison in the U.K., where there are 450 women of all different securities, from murderers down to those on remand, and that prison doesn't use segregation.

Public Safety committee  I'm not an expert on this. I just know from a humane point of view and from a mental health point of that it makes sense. I can just speak to the experiences I've encountered in other countries. My understanding is that many of the behaviour issues that we encounter are from mental health issues.

Public Safety committee  Maybe the wording is incorrect on that, but what I am saying is once you have incarcerated people that becomes an opportunity for them to improve their mental health. So therefore we should be doing everything we can in Canada to facilitate the improvement of mental health, not the worsening of mental health.

Public Safety committee  Does that answer your question?

Public Safety committee  When I work inside the system I'm trying to regard people I see as my patients, but I think the primary objective of many staff and correctional systems is security, so that tension is always there. Obviously, individuals within the system may find certain things helpful at certain times, but I don't see that the overall ethos of the prison environment, for many prison environments, is conducive to improving mental health.

Public Safety committee  Frankly, most of the people I see in prison have a range of mental health issues; it's a spectrum. We all have that in the sense of how well we're coping with life. We all have mental issues at one point in our lives. The majority of people I see in the provincial system are not psychiatrically ill patients who require transferring to a hospital, but they do have difficulties with their mental health.

Public Safety committee  I think care is multi-faceted. It's health, but it's also mental health, and as Brenda alluded to, it's education. Canada probably hasn't done a very good job, but we actually can learn from other countries. One of the documents I footnoted was a report from four countries—Australia, France, Norway, and Britain.

Public Safety committee  Yes, I'm sure there is. Maybe your committee could look at resourcing that kind of study, because I'm sure there's a cost benefit, never mind a human rights argument as well in terms of equivalence of care. I don't know, Brenda, if you have anything to add.

Public Safety committee  I'm very dismayed by the trajectory. I've been working in this situation for 16 years. I see that when people are sentenced, they are sent to corrections, but I think the sentence is the punishment and being taken away from society is the punishment. From that moment on, first of all, everything should be done to stabilize any acute medical-mental conditions.

Public Safety committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, for inviting me to be a witness. I come wearing three hats. I juggle a few hats, but these are the ones I'm wearing today. As a prison family physician, I've worked in corrections systems for 16 years, mostly with women and mostly in the provincial system, but I do have some experience with men's facilities and federal systems.