Public Safety committee  No, I actually had to get it extended. I remember that I couldn't find a job at the time, but the institution gave me extended time to find a job. I actually just went to the lowest-paid job. I took a minimum wage job, even though I went out with the credentials. I was qualified for higher pay, but I started at the bottom and worked my way up.

Public Safety committee  What I'm trying to say about the farm is that it's about learning the life skills. There's a lot more than just working on the farm. We've seen guys who sat in behind the wall, rigid and not getting along, and we watched them cascade down to lower security. I used a story in one of the talks I did about a guy who took a lot of pride in the job.

Public Safety committee  In terms of the equipment you were just talking about and driving the heavy equipment, as the farmer was saying, when I got out, my first job was working for a local moving company. It was a coincidence, because when I walked onto the job,nobody was driving all the heavy trucks there.

Public Safety committee  Thank you. My name is John Leeman. I'm an offender who served a life sentence and I wanted to come here today to speak on behalf of the inmates who have benefited from the farm. When I was in higher-security facilities, we had a lot of trades in them. I was a person who was very motivated to do them, but as we all know, when you are in higher security, it's more about focusing on punishment.