Fisheries committee  I don't know if this particular red list or these kinds of wallet card lists are having specific impacts on consumer decisions. The best people to ask are those in the industry. I'm sure they've looked at this and have probably assessed it. But you are right that those in the industry hardly have a choice in looking at the whole issue of sustainability if they want to continue selling their products.

Fisheries committee  That is a choice that can be made and has been made in other countries. Iceland as a country, pursued by the industry, has decided not to adopt MSC or another third party eco-label. They're in the process of creating their own. At the end of the day, though, this is a market demand.

Fisheries committee  I don't think the Department or the Government of Canada is losing power. In fact, the Department has approached some of these organizations to get a better understanding of the standards and to try to influence the development of the standards. In aquaculture, for example, the Department works very closely with organizations like the WWF and others.

Fisheries committee  This is just something to make it look good and tell our story about Canada's management of fisheries and aquaculture.

Fisheries committee  The purpose of the certification office is to issue certificates to export into the European Union; to demonstrate that Canadian seafood products or products that come through Canada are from legal fisheries, not from sustainable...

Fisheries committee  No.

Fisheries committee  This thing.

Fisheries committee  I couldn't tell you whether or not this specifically is something we're currently doing. I certainly will bring it back. The need to trace seafood products--their source, what they are, what they're called, what they're not called--is certainly something that stems from different trade bans from ICs to other organizations.

Fisheries committee  I'll answer that in two pieces. The lobster fishery, as you may be aware, has created a lobster council to represent it in terms of market access and marketing. They're currently developing their marketing strategy. Eco-labelling is part of the discussions. I would expect them to come to a decision at some point in the future on whether or not they go down this route.

Fisheries committee  I think they'd be better placed to tell you what their opposition to it is. But I've heard them speak a lot about the cost, as well as the monopoly of one organization versus another. I think there's a lack of understanding of why they need to do this. But looking at the consequences of the whole process, all of the assessments from the Marine Stewardship Council have led to conditions.

Fisheries committee  It's too soon to tell. I don't think Loblaws has actually decided what they're not going to put on their counters. They've taken out what they consider to be the obvious targets, and all of them are products that don't come from Canada currently. But in the next wave it will be important to see what Canadian seafood products they take away from their counters.

Fisheries committee  I'm glad you asked me that question. I actually forgot to praise one of my colleagues at DFO. DFO played a very strong leadership role in getting those guidelines developed. We saw the trend coming. We were concerned about the proliferation of labels out there that had different standards and mechanisms.

Fisheries committee  The certification office is actually up and running, and it is within DFO. It's to deal with something very distinct from what we're talking about today. It's to respond to a government's, the European Union government's, regulation requiring evidence of legality, the legal source of seafood products when importing into the European Union.

Fisheries committee  I mean the people who are involved in trying to flesh out what the FAO guidelines are, so countries. But as well, there are processes that the WWF has triggered, bringing in all sectors of the aquaculture industry, including governments. What they're trying to do is create a comprehensive process to look at all the issues, but it also makes it more complex and difficult to arrive at a conclusion.

Fisheries committee  It's not factored in eco-certification, so it's not factored in the MSC process. I believe there are other standards, other government standards, international standards, ISO standards, in relation to food safety. There are labels associated with the safety issue that are separate and distinct.