Justice committee  It's been about $400 million.

Justice committee  And you would agree that there has been an increase in provincial costs that exceeds them.

Justice committee  If memory serves, the federal-provincial payments would be somewhere in the neighbourhood of $80 million a year over the four-year mandate of our government. As you can imagine, most of that would simply go into meeting the increased costs of the health system and salaries there.

Justice committee  Right, and our health costs have probably added about 22% to the provincial budget, if I recall.

Justice committee  If the question is designed to elicit an answer instead of being rhetorical, I would say no. What I would say in responding to that is this: the social transfer was of course designed before any of this was contemplated. The transfer itself was based upon the cost that provinces actually have in meeting their responsibilities to provide health care in a timely fashion and social services.

Justice committee  They would not only have the discretion; when we're talking about intentional infliction of harm and violence upon others, be it from repeat sexual offenders or by those who are intentionally inflicting violence to take human life, not only do they have the discretion, but our guidelines also say that they should always seek to put them in adult court.

Justice committee  Certainly there is some language around the Nunn report that we would welcome. If I had my team sitting there with their drafting pencils, I would probably make some of the same comments I made around moving things to adult court, that by trying to stuff a lot of things, such as risky behaviour and so on, in this wide range of criteria, they may have actually given judges more discretion to not send violent offenders into the adult system or keep them locked up.

Justice committee  I would simply say that certainly there is an attempt to fund where possible, in dedicated youth facilities, those kinds of programs. I would also say, though, that a number of the programs we have, such as Portage and others, also provide security with targeted programs for everything from drug abuse to mental health.

Justice committee  Frankly, Mr. Dechert, if we have a murderer or a repeat sexual offender as a young offender, I want to move them into the adult system.

Justice committee  We may indeed. That would be very much tailored to the particular young person. We assess the risk they will pose and how quick is the impending date of release, and as much as possible within the provincial system, we will steer the provincial resources at the program most likely to turn their lives around before we're required to turn them loose on the public.

Justice committee  We do.

Justice committee  It would be an excellent idea to target the resources where we are most likely to do it. Now, murderers and sexual offenders are, as you know, two rather different criminals. If you are putting me in a scenario where I've been unable to prosecute them in the adult system, which is a little higher-risk in this bill, and I'm required to give them services if they've fallen into the system where they don't belong, a sexual offender, for example, is going to have a very different array of programs from somebody who is intentionally taking human life.

Justice committee  In terms of the Attorney General, we divide that ministry up. I could certainly get you that information.

Justice committee  Sure.

Justice committee  I think it is absolutely essential to protect the public, which is why in New Brunswick we've taken a bit of a different approach. To me, protecting the public means investing in the things that happen before the crime occurs. I guess that's why I wrestle a little bit with questions that are based on, “Well, if the system absolutely fails and a violent offender is in the youth system, what would you do?”