Information & Ethics committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair and members, for inviting me. I'm here because Saudi Arabia human rights reports are released late, after the minister makes his export permit decision. There are four drafts of it, that go back to the Conservative times, heavily blanked—different. I'm here because Treasury Board takes a six-month extension to tell me about transparent government.

Transport committee  Yes. I noticed that on April 23, when the minister's officials were here, the officials said there are about 100 files. Near the end, he offered in part to provide the committee with the files. I suggest strongly that you take him up on that, because for the public these files are secret.

Transport committee  If you legalize, just like they're trying to legalize—

Transport committee  I think it's a big leap to assume that there will be any more audits. But even the International Civil Aviation Organization has never gone this far in terms of their philosophy on safety management, that there be no public disclosure. Furthermore—

Transport committee  Sir, how do you know that audits are going to be done when they've issued directives saying that audits don't have to be done for now?

Transport committee  Well, that's good if you do. I would wholeheartedly—

Transport committee  Bill C-6 is trying to legalize SMS. I'm saying wait a minute, why aren't you legalizing regulatory audits, and why aren't you legalizing and promoting a system of air safety? If that's the case, that's wonderful. Let me raise one other thing. That is, on October 17, 1994, why would the director general of systems safety at the time, Mr.

Transport committee  Well, I hope that explains everything.

Transport committee  Well, Transport Canada issued an e-mail on November 3 to all of its personnel, which I got under the Access to Information Act and I can share with the committee. It says: Unless expressly asked to do so by the accountability manager, Aviation Enforcement shall no longer initiate an investigation into a contravention committed by an SMS certificate holder.

Transport committee  Well, they're going to the extent of saying let's shut out the public from knowing anything. They're going to the extent of saying, let's drop regulatory audits. They're going to the extent of saying, let's no longer have people be able to get certain kinds of CADORS or other building blocks for safety.

Transport committee  No. I'm all in favour of prevention, of getting the airline industry to understand standards, to improve matters, and to work it out with the regulator. But that's the nature of the public beast. It's that person, namely Transport Canada, just as if it were the Canadian Food Inspection Agency or the Nuclear Safety Commission.

Transport committee  No. I don't fly, but I've dealt with pilots—

Transport committee  I'm not even fuzzy warm. I've dealt with a lot of whistle-blowers. Some people even call me a permanent whistle-blower, on issues such as breast implants to security, or whatever. You have some gutsy people in this room today. You've got a small operator who has come forward. I know they are going to face reprisals.

Transport committee  I don't know if it's relevant, but I try to fly high in other ways. The fact of the matter is--and I was never a member of any party--that you can't build a 100% immunity system. You need to have whistle-blowing protection because pilots need that outlet too. You just have to have it built into these systems.

Transport committee  No, I didn't say that. Don't—