Justice committee  A justice of the peace will make a judicial decision.

Justice committee  Every morning when a justice of the peace or a judge takes the stand, goes onto the dais, he is thinking about public safety. He is thinking about the interests of the public and how the administration of justice is working. So when an accused person comes before him, even though there are primary and secondary grounds, the reality is that the judge is thinking about the public in terms of safety in relation to the release of this accused.

Justice committee  No, that would be a release.

Justice committee  You're not going to make a decision on the legislation on the basis that the CPIC information is available in three minutes. You don't need legislation for that. With great respect, your concerns are much larger than that. It's easy to say, if the CPIC system is operating properly, and if the information has been downloaded from British Columbia, or Nunavut, or wherever this person was before, and I have somebody to give me that information, then yes, it's going to be available in a couple of minutes.

Justice committee  With respect, and I'm not arguing with you, it's just that you are looking at bail in a microcosm. There are many concerns and many issues in relation to the bail, on primary, secondary, and tertiary grounds. It's a judicial hearing and a judicial decision is going to be made. You can't just take one piece and say that will change it.

Justice committee  Absolutely, you have proposed subparagraph (iv). It says: to show the circumstances of the alleged offence, particularly as they relate to the probability of conviction of the accused That's a trial. That bail hearing is going to take a while for sure, so yes.

Justice committee  Sir, can I say that the crown counsel will be forced not to consent. Then the courts are going to implode.

Justice committee  It's hard for the public to understand when someone is charged with an offence, but we start off with a presumption that this person deserves to be in the community according to the charter. Anything that seems to interfere with this—anything that is not reasonable and not proportionate—will face a charter challenge, no question.

Justice committee  I think it's a nightmare.

Justice committee  Absolutely. That's in the interest of the public.

Justice committee  No, I'm not. I'm here as a member of the public and we don't just look at it in isolation. The charter is the umbrella that we work under everyday. I've been a victim of crime. I've defended people that have committed terrible offences and I've defended people who were totally innocent, but the public safety and the interests of the public include the proper and proportionate application of the law.

Justice committee  If a justice said to me—

Justice committee  I think a justice is always going to say to the defence, “you may”. I can't think of too many circumstances where the justice will compel, but let's go on the other side of the coin. If I were a crown and the justice said, “Mr. Trudell you shall”, then I might say, “Your worship, I need an adjournment because it's not available.

Justice committee  I was just told that was an appropriate apology from me.

Justice committee  What goes on in a consent bail is this. Crown packages are available. A prosecutor, whether for the province or the PPSC in drug matters, looks at it, looks at the criminal record, looks at the accused, and in a drug case finds out whether there's an addiction issue. The prosecutor looks at whether the accused has roots in the community, and maybe whether they have a surety.