Citizenship and Immigration committee  --on the crooked consultants.... Because they're not even part of the equation. You see, here's the way it is: there is a desperate person who wants to come in, and there is a swindler, and they're both outside. This operation is not going to work at all without the cooperation of the immigration officer and CBSA.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes, it would, but even if you did not, they would still be there.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  They would still be operating.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Let me try to explain how the desperate person's mind works. A desperate person--

Citizenship and Immigration committee  It might, yes.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That's true.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  The bad guys, yes, that's--

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes, we run the risk of doing that, and the way to eliminate the risk, or to at least bring it down, is to train our own immigration officers, or CBSA, or whoever it is who will be interviewing them.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That is right. A lot of people give advice and that's actually very dangerous, because you give simple advice because you have experience with one case, but that person might have another case. The problem is that even if they don't charge anything, the client takes it as real advice, so--

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes. We have to be very careful--even I do--that the advice.... That's why I always say when it comes to immigration, the work permit, and the papers, you have to go to the immigration consultant. I have a bunch of them who have different prices giving the same service. Everybody's registered with CSIC, but they have different prices.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes, that is what I am asking. I know it's very difficult and painful, but from the victims' point of view, in their minds they did not know. They were innocent . They thought the papers were correct. They thought this person was just helping them. Now, let me differentiate between the victims.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  From my experience, you can tell, because once you are talking to the person, somewhere in the conversation it's going to come out. The people who interview them have to be trained to watch out for the signs. You can tell if the person is lying or not.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  No, I am not.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  No, because I don't give any advice at all. We actually have immigration consultants.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  The licence I have is a recruitment licence, so when people come to me it's because they're looking for a job and they need a new work permit for the new job. That's why I partner with immigration consultants and they handle the work permit side. We handle only the search for employment.