Transport committee  We're going up, not down.

Transport committee  I think that's a safe prediction.

Transport committee  Sure. In fact there is a role in terms of the build, the construction, and the manufacturing of the vehicles. There are financing alternatives that I'm sure you're all aware of. This is a national problem, and this is an issue that really needs everyone at the table.

Transport committee  It might, but I want to be clear, in terms of the chart I had of those different tools, that it wasn't just the city of Toronto. That's for the entire greater Toronto-Hamilton region. That's what everybody has said out there: we're willing to pay more; we want more transit. People are going crazy stuck on that 401 in that gridlock situation that is getting worse every year.

Transport committee  In fact, I'll go even further. I'm not being facetious at all. Almost everybody wants all this stuff, but when it comes down to how you're going to pay for it, you have a difference of opinion. That's the discussion we have to have, because the rest of the world has already done it.

Transport committee  I'll be clear: I think this is everybody's problem. I think the federal government has a role, along with provincial and local governments as well as the people.

Transport committee  Whatever the final resolution on the source of funding, whether it's dedicated or allocated to just transport or broader infrastructure, it has to be sustainable, continuous over time. That's the key issue. You cannot plan and build these kinds of transit systems in five, six, or seven years.

Transport committee  Local municipalities are closest to the people so they know the lay of the land. There's no question about that. I don't care whether it's Yellowknife or Toronto. Neither of them can afford the kinds of transit services needed for today and in the future. We will soon be adding 16 million people to the population.

Transport committee  That's an excellent question. I will say a couple of things. Number one, really my message is to give people more of a choice. Right now if you live in downtown Montreal, Toronto, or Vancouver, you have a choice. You don't have to have a car if you don't want one. But if you are in the 905 area, suburban Montreal, or rural communities, obviously you have to have a car because there's no viable transit to get you anywhere, other than the commuter rail during the morning and evening rush hours.

Transport committee  I come back to choice over and over again. One last comment I'll make follows up on the comment earlier about the needs of seniors. If you add up the population, everyone from 0 to 16 doesn't drive, for obvious reasons; they can't have a licence. A lot of people over 65 or 75 don't drive, for various reasons.

Transport committee  Yes.

Transport committee  It could be. The gas tax, as you well know, is something you have done, and I'm very glad that you have. The province and the federal government are partners in that, so that's a possibility. In terms of operating grants, capital grants, obviously those are areas the federal government could consider looking at.

Transport committee  Yes.

Transport committee  I agree with you, and there have been discussions, obviously, with municipalities and the provinces, certainly in this context. That's one of the reasons I suggested, just for the consideration of the committee, the idea of these tripartite forums, to talk about these issues and figure out who does what.

Transport committee  I think you have to have the discussion first. It's like the image I had of the two children talking to each other. We have to have a discussion, a conversation, not an argument. The fact is--and this is why I love that this is an all-party committee--that in many ways it doesn't matter who is in power in the government, this problem is not going away.