Public Safety committee  There are two questions in that. One is whether or not we should have mandatory testing; the other is what the response should be to somebody's testing positive. As many people are in prison for drug-related offences, does testing positive for drugs mean that one is then further punished for the thing one has already been caught for?

Public Safety committee  In answer to the first question as to how the intercorrelation between drug addiction and mental health problems gives rise to more people being in prisons, or with those problems, there are multiple pathways to that in people's lives. We see some people who develop a primary mental illness and who self-medicate to some degree with drugs or alcohol, particularly cannabis, which drives both criminal behaviour and mental ill health.

Public Safety committee  I would respond on three levels. One is that you must have very tight security and detection at the gates. The best deterrent is your risk of getting caught, not the risk of the magnitude of the punishment. The higher the likelihood that you'll catch people at the gate, the more you will deter.

Public Safety committee  Yes, you are.

Public Safety committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Sorenson and the committee, for hearing from us. My name is Sandy Simpson. As you've said, I'm the clinical director of the law and mental health program at CAMH. I'm also head of the division of forensic psychiatry at the University of Toronto. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today.