Transport committee  Automotive Partnership Canada is actually to bring the federal funding bodies together around a particular industry and to drive their funding support to meet industry needs. Actually, the innovation here is around the kind of challenge that was mentioned in the presentation from Transport, around making the programs accessible.

Transport committee  I'll just add that it's an interesting challenge. The automatic response might end up making it worse. When you offer intellectual property protection, it's the company that holds it, and it's their private right. They would build an investment plan around that because they have certainty over what they own.

Transport committee  Maybe I'll provide a specific answer in terms of the programs. The ones I'm most familiar with are in the strategic aerospace and defence initiative. There are clauses in our agreement that provide that they maintain protection for the IP they've developed through support that has been provided to the company and also that it be retained in Canada.

Transport committee  Well, I would simply reference the clients that I would be most familiar with through SADI. In all cases they're quite sophisticated in respect of the protection of the IP they've developed. Often at a later point in a project, or even when they're in the repayment phase, we undertake negotiations with them in terms of how they might wish to change arrangements around that IP, so I do see a lot of awareness of this aspect.

Transport committee  The other two are newer initiatives, so we don't have the track record. It's exactly the same sort of undertaking for us to determine.

Transport committee  The only caveat I have to put on it is that you can't test the counter-factual way—that is, if you didn't do this, what would have happened otherwise? I have no way to test it. You can certainly look to the companies and the stream of technology to see where it was inserted into a product and to see how those products have turned out in terms of whether they're a commercial success, but you can't test what would have happened otherwise.

Transport committee  Then the question is this: do you have the right instruments? Did you spend more or less than you ought to get the result? It's hard to test, and I'm just offering that as a qualification.

Transport committee  It's a complicated question. The long-standing policy approach in terms of the Government of Canada, as you referenced rightly, is that the industrial and regional benefits program is an offset to what other countries might undertake. More direct procurement to support domestic industry has been the way Canada has gone about industrial development while at the same time buying things it needs.

Transport committee  It could be done. It's a question of reflecting a continuity of programming. I'll just say, for example, the largest of the programs is SADI. This is a continuity of programming that reaches back to the program prior to Technology Partnerships Canada. Prior to that was the defence industry productivity program.

Transport committee  That's quite a question.

Transport committee  We don't have a direct role in the policy of ITAR or that particular domain and policy you're interested in. I can only deal with this from an anecdotal point of view in terms of projects that are in the research and development area, particularly in support of training. I was in Manitoba a couple of months ago and visited a joint facility between Red River College and Standard Aero.

Transport committee  I can start, Chair. Thank you for the question. In terms of the recommendation you referred to from the Jenkins report, the call to the government was to consider how it could elevate and integrate innovation more witin the procurement practices of all departments. I think consideration of that recommendation is under way.

Transport committee  Sorry to appear to be elusive, but I think I'd be more comfortable if advice or information on that were provided to the committee by the responsible officials in the area of procurement policy. It's best for me not to tread into their territory lest I get myself in some trouble.

Transport committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. We're pleased to be here today from Industry Canada to provide information on innovative transportation technologies to the transport committee and to answer your questions. At the outset I will provide a bit of background in terms of science and technology innovation policy and the Government of Canada's work in this regard.