National Defence committee  Wait times and things like that are the hard data we are using right now.

National Defence committee  There is a free discussion that occurs. All of our clinicians have different training, different experiences, and those kinds of things. We have uniformed clinicians and civilian clinicians. The way we work is that we bring people in to talk about the issues they have at hand. Sometimes it might be disciplinary issues with people who have mental health issues.

National Defence committee  You would be surprised. If you close the door—

National Defence committee  Yes.

National Defence committee  Absolutely.

National Defence committee  Do you mean changes in—

National Defence committee  I wouldn't be the person to speak to about that.

National Defence committee  There are many. A cortisol surge usually occurs.

National Defence committee  I would have no idea. It's not a pheromone. It's a central brain chemical. I don't know if dogs can smell cortisol.

National Defence committee  Petawawa is actually overmanned now. They have 4.8 psychiatrists for a population of about 6,000, and there probably isn't a community anywhere in the world that has that many psychiatrists for 6,000 people. There's not any civilian population, so we're doing very well there in recruiting and interest and passion, and soldiers are getting care on a very timely basis now.

National Defence committee  Yes. The psychologists themselves have moved to continue offering services in Petawawa. Unfortunately, I think it might have been our fault in the way we communicated it, but it was actually a good-news story. We were closing the satellite that was requiring soldiers to travel away from their families for two hours, just like our friends from Shilo travelling to Winnipeg.

National Defence committee  Do you mean for Petawawa specifically?

National Defence committee  I might have it in front of me. In terms of the way our systems are set up for crises, we have the psychosocial services, which wouldn't involve a psychiatrist but another mental health professional. That would occur in the same day—to see a professional, not necessarily a psychiatrist.

National Defence committee  I missed your numbers. How many below are you saying we are?

National Defence committee  That's not true.