International Trade committee  There were a lot of issues of corruption. There were a lot of issues of lack of transparency. That's what the OECD process was all about: this business of signing tax agreements with other countries and meeting a certain number of standards to be on the list of countries that are reliable.

International Trade committee  No, I haven't spoken to anybody who specifically told me “No FTA, no investment”. My members have told me that an FTA to them is a positive signal that allows them to invest more easily.

International Trade committee  Yes.

International Trade committee  Yes. Obviously democracy's not a yes-or-no thing; there are different gradations, even in Canada, but it's a fully functioning democracy.

International Trade committee  I don't think “fully independent” judiciary is a yes-or-no answer either. I think it's a judiciary that's moving in the right direction. There are corruption problems, as there are anywhere.

International Trade committee  I was a lawyer for about a year before I got into....

International Trade committee  There's a corruption commission working on things in Quebec right now, but obviously there's more corruption in Panama than there is in Canada. I'm saying it's a move in the right direction.

International Trade committee  No, no, and I understand what you're saying. My argument is just that things are moving in the right direction. My argument is not that there's no corruption in the Panamanian judiciary.

International Trade committee  I don't like the term “fully functioning, independent judiciary”. I think these things are levels and not yes or no.

International Trade committee  I think it's just the percentages thing. Some will and some won't, but having a free trade agreement gives you added confidence that can tip the balance a little bit more in your favour.

International Trade committee  There's everything around the increase in the size of the canal. A lot of engineering, services, banking services, and equipment are going into that. It's a huge thing. There are also engineering services around the growth in the tourism industry. In Panama I think we sell a lot on the agricultural side.

International Trade committee  Yes. As I said before, I think for some it could be the deal breaker, and for others it would mean it would be a little bit more expensive to do business, because they'd have to take that risk and compensate for it through buying additional insurance or something.

International Trade committee  What was the year Noriega got grabbed? Was it the early nineties? I don't have it off the top of my head, but it was in the early nineties that Noriega went down. After that, things changed for the better very, very quickly.

International Trade committee  Yes, absolutely. I think we have a pretty big bureaucracy that can work on deals all over the world at the same time. Also, we have a business community that's interested in different parts of the world. Sometimes it's the same company all over the world and other times it's different companies.

International Trade committee  I could give an example. Let's say it's a Canadian engineering firm that's looking at a big opportunity in Panama. If it doesn't have the same investment protections that a firm from the U.S., the EU, or another country has, then they're going to have to pay for some sort of political risk insurance somewhere.