Public Safety committee  Yes, I absolutely believe that, sir, and I believe that's an important factor when the parents realize what their sons or their daughters have done—mostly their sons. Of course, there's a concern that some of them may actually die overseas in conflict, supporting what is a terrorist organization.

Public Safety committee  Yes, sir.

Public Safety committee  Yes, absolutely, sir.

Public Safety committee  I would go back to my beginning in the hate crime unit in 1993. Certainly there are a number of communities that feel impacted by legislation and certain enforcement initiatives and certain legislation like this. Certainly, right now, as the threat comes from the concern with Islamic extremists or those of the Muslim faith, the efforts in fact to move closer to them, not only by the Toronto Police, but as I said earlier....

Public Safety committee  I have given much thought to circumstances that we are seeing and we are wrestling with in relation to Canadians who are being radicalized, who are perhaps being lured to other parts of the world to support conflicts and other terrorist acts. There are a number of people who are, I think, led astray.

Public Safety committee  Okay, sorry. The other part that I believe is very important with these sections is again the prevention, the threat of being held accountable for behaviour here. There are conditions put on people who have crossed the line and come into the criminal realm. It would also be very beneficial as a deterrent.

Public Safety committee  That's correct.

Public Safety committee  Well, certainly I can go back to when I first came to intelligence, the Toronto police intelligence unit, in 1993, which was when our hate crime unit was established. The issue of that day was a domestic concern, a national one: white supremacy. A group in this country was very involved with its ideological beliefs, and it was growing within a very short period of time.

Public Safety committee  Thank you very much for inviting me to come and address the members of this committee. I come as a Toronto police officer. I have the unique circumstance of being seconded to the RCMP; I work in their national security program. My background is such that I have worked in the area of terrorism from a municipal perspective since 1995, when we first created a subsection in our intelligence unit that addressed the issues.