International Trade committee  I wasn't speaking specifically to the national treatment issue there. There are a number of other disciplines in the agreement as well, in particular, the fair and equitable treatment one, and with the unknown breadth of that under the current drafting, the risks become higher.

International Trade committee  I'm not sure what you mean by a delta there.

International Trade committee  I assume there are variations, but I don't know the significance of them.

International Trade committee  There are two issues there. The first one is the chill effect. In my view that is very much present. It's on the record in New Zealand now in terms of the anti-tobacco issues. They wanted to pass the exact same legislation Australia did, and the health minister in New Zealand said straight out, on the record, that they weren't going to do it until they saw the results of the cases against Australia and Uruguay brought by Philip Morris.

International Trade committee  I can't speak for the government here and I wouldn't attempt to. In theory, the idea is that access to investor-state dispute settlement and the provisions thereof attract higher levels of investment. That's the theory. The empirical facts indicate that it doesn't do that. There is no relationship between investment treaties or the investor-state dispute settlement process and attracting new high levels of investment.

International Trade committee  I'm not sure what would be in that program, so I don't want to speculate just on that kind of open language.

International Trade committee  Yes.

International Trade committee  Yes.

International Trade committee  Yes, I am. Let me be specific here, and a little more precise, if I may. Simply because the agreement would allow European investors and other investors using this text because of MFN provisions to initiate an arbitration doesn't mean they will win, so we want to be a little bit careful there.

International Trade committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, for the invitation to speak today. CETA is a major trade and investment initiative, quite obviously, and will have major implications for all governments in Canada as well as the Canadian public. I want to speak today only to the investment chapter.