Finance committee  It has been shown that merchants have a higher level of spend when consumers present credit cards and even higher when they present premium credit cards at point of sale. It's our intent to allow merchants and consumers to choose what they would like to take and how they would like to pay and to accommodate both.

Finance committee  Many merchants do not accept credit cards. I frequent a Chinese takeout in my neighbourhood in Oakville, and I pay a 5% discount for cash. That's certainly their prerogative.

Finance committee  That's not what I said, Mr. Rankin. What I said is that we respect the choice of credit and debit, and we accommodate both for consumers and merchants.

Finance committee  I would need to have Amanda and George get back to you on that.

Finance committee  Mr. Allen, if I may respond, I think the ultimate barrier to entry is the consumer. Are they being offered choice? Do they perceive it as safe and secure, cost-effective, and easy to use? Technology can come up with many wonderful things, but if we as consumers don't find it easy to use and we don't have confidence in it, that's a real barrier to entry.

Finance committee  No, I do not believe that's an accurate statement. The merchant's acquirers would have to inform them and in fact the level of disclosure that's required has increased. I'm sure you're aware of the Commissioners Guidance 10 that came out in the fall; it is much easier for merchants to shop around and find a competitive offer.

Finance committee  There is very little on your mobile phone. It would be simply a way to go to the secure cloud, get the data that's required, and then deploy it as the merchant requires. If you think of it, your phone has basically nothing on it. It's all in the cloud behind a firewall.

Finance committee  It could be Visa. It could be a store co-brand card. It could be a loyalty card. It should be as easy for you to use that wallet—with all of those cards—in the mobile sense as it is today online or physically.

Finance committee  Well, Mr. Keddy, at RBC, as I've said, we want consumers and merchants to have choice. So whereas today in your online banking or in your physical wallet, you have an Interac debit card, you have a credit card that could be MasterCard—

Finance committee  I don't think that's accurate.

Finance committee  Purchase protection is offered with each of our credit cards, and if you do buy something and you don't receive the goods.... If you buy something in Singapore and it doesn't arrive home in Canada—

Finance committee  —you are protected, and you're also protected from fraud.

Finance committee  I was a home-based female entrepreneur merchant 20 years ago, before I could use credit cards online. The time it took me to collect from many of my clients, and the NSF cheques I received, made the company go into receivership, quite frankly. So I look at the actual value of collections and surety of payment.

Finance committee  One of the reasons that did catch on in Singapore during that time is that they also used it for transit applications. Many of the stores that surrounded transit also took it, so it became an inevitable part of daily life. As payments roll out, other applications that are also compelling will cause different groups to be able to switch to mobile.

Finance committee  All of those are included in the solution. If I may, Mr. Thibeault, I'd also like to add that with the RBC Secure Cloud solution, the mix the merchant currently experiences with Interac debit and credit will remain the same. Interac Flash, which our consumers use at point of sale, is free of charge for consumers.