Public Safety committee  I would definitely see it as a positive. I think the service providers in a model like this would maybe be forced to develop better performance measurement, performance metrics, and to transparently report back to the public, or to have measured by an independent evaluator, what their rate of success has been, what they've actually accomplished.

Public Safety committee  I have one comment based on casual observation rather than anything studied. In my work with public sector organizations, I have observed something of a transformation taking place such that government is less interested in perhaps providing direct service delivery and more interested in focusing on the core business of policy regulation and really focusing on the welfare of its constituents in some circumstances where it may see benefits from having other providers, on their behalf, for services, financing, or management skills.

Public Safety committee  That's a very good point. I would respectfully submit that from time to time government has been involved in social finance of a type when it supports, for example, particular industries via low-income or no-income loans or grants that aim to strengthen an industry, or help to preserve jobs or employment in a community.

Public Safety committee  I like to think that Canada is quite a benevolent society and that we can recognize those who deserve support in our communities, and that we recognize affected groups as well as those affected from a geographic or a socio-economic standpoint. That's always going to be a problem, but I'm optimistic that Canada reaches out and tries to help those groups when it identifies those groups.

Public Safety committee  That's with regard to the social impact bond.

Public Safety committee  For the financial investors we've spoken to, I think many of them have learned a lot from the recent evolution of the Canadian infrastructure market and are comfortable in taking on risk associated with performance-based contracts. Performance-based contracts have been used effectively in that market, so they see the potential benefits transferring nicely to a market that includes providing social services and an amelioration of social conditions as well.

Public Safety committee  I believe the rate of recidivism in Canada is a published rate. Certainly lowering that would be a good objective. It does make for a very good potential social objective to implement a pilot project on that, for a variety of factors. The sample populations that you can identify can be well structured so that you can really look at cause and effect around the impacts your programs are having.

Public Safety committee  I think different investors will have different objectives. A commercial bank may have a different objective from a pension fund or a private individual in a community where they have a tie to the social objective. For example, they live in the community where they were hoping to reduce recidivism, or they're an employer or a pension fund in a community where they would like to see perhaps a reduction in the unemployment rate or an increase in the skills level of potential employees.

Public Safety committee  Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. As a contribution to the committee's considerations, in my 10-minute introduction, I hope to cover some of the underlying factors that may be promoting growth in the social finance sector; provide some discussion about how social finance works, and the benefits, particularly considering how it relates to crime prevention in Canada; and also maybe provide the committee with some knowledge and information from a market sounding that Deloitte has conducted.