Public Safety committee  That money that could have gone to them would not; it would be going to these other ventures. May I add one more statement?

Public Safety committee  Although the United Nations compendium supports the social development programs, and rightly so, we also want to be cautious that we don't merely engage in social programs for crime reduction purposes alone, and that good governance and an enlightened society should contribute to those things, independent of whether they have a reduction of crime.

Public Safety committee  Regarding the municipalities specifically?

Public Safety committee  In my dissertation I talked about natural threats inherent to the crime prevention endeavour, and I called those “tertiary drift”, based on what we call the PST model, the primary, secondary, tertiary model, being applied to crime prevention. The other one I called “social development creep”.

Public Safety committee  I think I'll stick to what I said earlier, that of course I'm supportive of any venture that would reduce harm to Canadians. But if it's a stand-alone venture apart from a larger strategic framework, I don't think the word “sustainability” should be attached to it. But I think that if something can be shown to work, we need to support that.

Public Safety committee  I can hear you.

Public Safety committee  In Britain, Tony Blair took up that effort and made it part of the national strategy. So, yes, I think it would be at the national level.

Public Safety committee  Well, I learned a couple of things. One, the age crime curve was drilled into my mind, and that is, that most people who are offenders commit crimes when they're young and they never go on to commit another one.

Public Safety committee  Thank you for the question. A complete reliance only on performance indicators....

Public Safety committee  I think the best way to answer that is to understand that the crime rate may not measure what we think it measures. Specifically, I can recall, and I do have it with me, an article in The Delta, a local newspaper in Surrey, that records a Staff Sergeant Garry Beggs stating that prostitution within Newton rose in one fell swoop rose by over 300%, and that it was not an indication that the Mounties were not doing their job.

Public Safety committee  The motto of Mayor Dianne Watts' campaign for crime reduction was to get at the root causes of crime. That was the heart of it. It's one thing to say it, it's another thing to actually understand what that actually means, and in what context and everything else. A lot of it depends on very recent research—new things that we're learning all the time.

Public Safety committee  In terms of the statutory legislation that creates some sense of responsibility, obligation, and transparency, I think it's crucial. I think of all things that moved the United Kingdom, or Britain, if you will, out of their repetitive or stalled crime prevention setting was the Crime and Disorder Act.

Public Safety committee  I'd have to give that some more thought, sir.

Public Safety committee  I'm not sure. I would have to say that given my background, I have a very situational approach to addressing crime issues and social ills. We cannot assume that every context is the same. I would not apply a recipe-type of approach to the various urban and rural areas around Canada.

Public Safety committee  I would have to go back and take a look at that to make an accurate comparison now.