Public Safety committee  Because there is going to be a return. It's actually a market that they don't understand. When you talk about higher risk, I would caution that frequently things are viewed as higher risk simply because the market is not understood and because the risks are not understood. Again, there has not been the scale there, so that's one of the reasons there hasn't been a market.

Public Safety committee  Yes, but I would agree with James that it's likely to be philanthropic capital, foundation funds.

Public Safety committee  It is. It's in the downtown eastside of Vancouver.

Public Safety committee  No, it is not. They are looking to expand their program, financed through a social impact bond structure.

Public Safety committee  Again, my speciality is finance and real estate finance around social impact, around affordable housing, and social purpose real estate. That said, I'll have an opinion on this kind of intervention into indigenous communities. The challenges around that population have been so profound, much like prisons, the opportunity for improvement...it's a great temptation to try a new approach.

Public Safety committee  I would say fundamental to that is allowing the community providers who work in this sector the latitude to build their balance sheet and create the capital that will allow them, to use James's terms, the managerial approach, but will allow them to be comfortable managing capital for other people.

Public Safety committee  Yes. There is actually some paper being done for the G-8 meeting that I'd be happy to forward to you. It has a summary. The two issues that are most obvious are, one, it's not clear that foundations can invest in limited partnerships, and many foundations that are the first actors in this area—again, to quote James, and I would agree—are stymied by that.

Public Safety committee  Mr. Chairman, committee members, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to appear before the committee to discuss using private and institutional financing as part of the strategy to improve social outcomes and strengthen communities across Canada. I have served as vice-president of community investment at Vancity since September 2010.