Justice committee  There's a lot there. What I can say is that as it stands right now, we “may” prove all this. But when you put “shall” prove, it raises the standard. And if we don't prove, which we'll now be mandated to do, they're more likely to be released than not. If we don't properly prove the record, if we only get some of the record instead of all of it, if they don't properly prove the rest of it, then we're going to have problems.

Justice committee  They'd be right for sure. That's part of the issue we're having, which is that we're going to have mini-trials and that it's just going to make the process longer or more arduous by once again setting the bar a little higher. What happens if we don't have all the evidence we need?

Justice committee  Down the rabbit hole, as they would say?

Justice committee  Every time you do something like that, I have to put it back in the mix, churn it around a while, and see what happens. It's probably not a question that I could answer right away. It would be different, but then again, you're changing established wording in the code, so once again I'll go back to my “changing a comma could change a lot” statement.

Justice committee  I probably would have to say that in my view that would be the case: that it actually does not help. Now, I'm exponentially glad that the conversation has been had, and that the bill was brought forward, because we're having a conversation. It's dramatically changed things in Alberta in how things are done and has made us all view the bail provisions in a different way.

Justice committee  Not being a legislative drafter, I can't see my way through fixing it per se. I like the idea that the language can change, but once again, if you change a comma you start running into problems. The bail provisions as they stand work the best way they can. Changing them is not going to prevent another tragedy.

Justice committee  Are you giving me a blank cheque, or do I have to be—?

Justice committee  I will say—and this is something that was unanimous, really, around our table and among other people we have talked to—that CPIC is an issue for us. Having a national database for records is really what we should be working on here. We need to get a good, solid database. Our criminals are very transient now.

Justice committee  I thought that was for listening to my iPad or something. Could you repeat the question while I'm trying to untangle this?

Justice committee  On which part?

Justice committee  I've read studies. I've been in court when individuals who, under domestic violence, have threatened and beaten their partner repeatedly and have said they were going to be killed. We ran a full bail hearing, putting all the information that's mandated here before the court. They were released, and they broke into the house that night and killed their partner and the baby.

Justice committee  —I don't want to say catastrophic change, but fairly big change, and a change whose ramifications I'm not sure everybody understands, the ramifications of putting these words.... They're not just words; in law they mean something. We have cases that go to the Supreme Court of Canada on placement of a comma.

Justice committee  I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you. I don't know whether it's the room or some background, but could you repeat?

Justice committee  It wouldn't, because we don't present any facts on release on consent. On average, we get somewhere between 10 and 20 people in bail court every day, and then some are carried over, so we have a large number of people. We and the defence lawyers go through the files. We'll consent to the portions that seem appropriate, given all the facts; we write it out, and then one after another they're brought up before the justice, and we will release the individuals.

Justice committee  Of course it removes crown discretion. You're not going to see other parts of the Criminal Code where it tells us to call certain evidence. Cases like Boucher, Krieger, Miazga all entrench as sacrosanct the idea of crown discretion, and we need to have that to operate freely and independently in the justice system.