Public Safety committee  It comes out of police clubs. It comes out of the mosques. It comes out of church organizations. It comes out of social clubs. It comes out of general athletic clubs. It comes out of parents. Let's face it, parents are not entirely irrelevant in this process.

Public Safety committee  Oh, not always; I was simply drawing from the green paper itself, which argues that there is a need to create that alternative vision. I'm expressing the view that it's necessary to do so, but to do so with caution, and to be careful about from whence that vision derives.

Public Safety committee  I can do so, but only very briefly. I think I was trying to suggest that, yes, there are times when some compromise of charter rights may be necessary. That relates to the question about whether the CSIS Act should be revised or not to make it absolutely consistent with the charter.

Public Safety committee  I'm not comfortable with secret hearings. I'm not comfortable with the notion of witnesses, individuals who are charged with offences, who cannot be confronted by the witnesses who bring testimony against them. It's a basic principle of natural justice, is it not? I think we need, therefore, to have more faith in our judicial system in dealing with national security matters.

Public Safety committee  Could I just add briefly to this? Some of you may be aware of the fact that a number of years ago there was a national initiative that involved Immigration and Citizenship Canada, the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council, and a number of other federal agencies to fund projects on immigration and integration.

Public Safety committee  To take leadership roles.

Public Safety committee  The green paper refers to the need to promote alternatives to the radical vision. My question was, who will generate that alternative vision or those alternative values? I was expressing some concern about the sensitivity in Canadian society over testing people on their adherence, if you wish, to Canadian values, which has been a debate, as we know, for the last several months in Canadian politics and society.

Public Safety committee  I think the answer to the last part of your question is absolutely yes. I'm not sure that Canada is in the same situation, relative to the poverty and the marginalization, that a number of European constituencies are in with regard to the marginalization of youth. I'm not a specialist in the area of social work, and I don't want to venture too far into this, but I know from my colleagues in social work who are working with ethnic and indigenous communities, some of whom are the more marginalized segments of our society, that there is a need, clearly, to engage in educational activities that bring individuals more into the mainstream of the engagement with their communities.

Public Safety committee  First of all, I don't know how much budget has been allocated to that. I think you would also have to determine at what level we're looking at the financial commitments. If we're talking about federal allocation only, I think that wouldn't take into consideration what's happening at the community level with police, educational institutions, and community organizations.

Public Safety committee  Thank you. In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that I'm also a senior fellow at the Centre for Military, Security and Strategic Studies—although we haven't consulted on this—and a former president of the Rocky Mountain Civil Liberties Association. Note, however, that I do not speak for either organization, but as an individual.