Environment committee  I know of it. I'm not as familiar with it as you would be.

Environment committee  —does nothing.

Environment committee  Well, if they're going to be used for rental purposes, then yes, it's an incentive. If they're going to be used for personal purposes, then you'll need to have a grant approach in order to help them. For the kind of heritage property that in the main we're talking about, when you look at Kingston in particular, there are some beautiful big old buildings that could certainly use it.

Environment committee  That was why, when I started my opening comments, my first inclination was that this was an opportunity to marry certain environmental aspects with the heritage aspects. These heritage buildings will have to undergo, or should be undergoing, those kinds of environmentally sensitive, energy-efficient mechanisms to bring them into this century.

Environment committee  Well, generally speaking, I would argue that at the end of the day, assuming taxability of the particular investor or developer involved, the dollar amounts could very well be the same. The question is about the quickness of delivery and the administration of the program. Clearly when you put criteria into the Income Tax Act, it's self-determining.

Environment committee  Well, time is money as well, and when things take time before approval is given, it's not as interesting as a self-assessment when you know you have a project that will meet the criteria that are listed and you're ready to go.

Environment committee  Yes. I would say that provided it's a refundable grant, which is basically equivalent at the bottom line to a grant, then yes, because it's easier access.

Environment committee  I think the answer to that is definitely yes, because if we think about it, there are three types of ownership of properties. There are properties that would be in the commercial mainstream, which would be owned by investors, developers, and so on, and those properties would be renovated to maintain the heritage character, and would likely either be used in some kind of commercial activity on the owner's behalf or be used for rental purposes.

Environment committee  Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee, for having me here this morning. It was a bit of a last-minute notice, but I'm delighted to be here.

Environment committee  Yes, I am presently a senior adviser at Norton Rose Fulbright, which is a major international law firm. In my previous life, from the end of 2005 backwards, I was the general director for tax policy legislation in the Department of Finance. As such, I have a history of having worked with Professor Christina Cameron and others in developing the policy on heritage property.