Finance committee  Because of time limitations, I will point people to a paper I recently wrote, published by the Fraser Institute, on the need to coordinate fiscal and monetary policy. Even people like Paul Volcker would say, fundamentally.... Everybody looks at Volcker and says, “Oh, it's monetarism that brought inflation under control.”

Finance committee  There are two problems with the OECD's...and I'm not sure I would criticize them for this. I think they would always note.... People who look at budget deficits always note that Canada has the most decentralized government structure of any of the major G7 nations.

Finance committee  Okay.... Anyway, it's a much different situation. The 1.7% you cited, for example, if my memory serves correctly, was a federal—

Finance committee  Obviously not. It's something Mr. Morneau acknowledged extensively in his book. Repeatedly, for example, the Department of Finance would make proposals about support for people during the pandemic, and even with the highest estimate they put forward, the PMO would come back with something higher.

Finance committee  None whatsoever. What's discouraging is that groups like the Bank for International Settlements have warned about overreliance on short-term stimulus since 2014-15, yet that is one of the reasons we've gotten into this problem. We resort only to short-term monetary and fiscal stimulus to create growth.

Finance committee  No, and like you and a lot of observers, I was surprised that there seemed to be recognition in the 2022 budget: “Houston, we have a long-term structural problem with productivity.” One would have thought that would be the beginning of a process, and that seems to have been forgotten.

Finance committee  First of all, I'm certainly not surprised that anything finance ministers say is going to be self-serving. I am encouraged that there is an increasing awareness out there that there is this gross problem in Canada. The Globe and Mail recently, just a couple of months ago, had an editorial that talked about Canada's sclerotic growth.

Finance committee  —nine climate change plans since 1992. Emissions have gone up steadily. My close friends at Équiterre, I'm sure, are no happier with the outcome than I am. We have rising emissions and no economic growth. I don't know how you could have a worse outcome.

Finance committee  Yes, but I think there's a bigger problem with taxation. I'm going to quote Paul Wells. I go back to how there is an increasing recognition in the public debate in this country that something has gone wrong. Paul Wells put it that if you run a successful business in this country, you're made to feel that you've done something wrong.

Finance committee  That's based on Statistics Canada data, which is among the best in the world.

Finance committee  That's right, but that 0.8% per capita is on average, per year.

Finance committee  That's right. That's fundamental to the argument that this is not something that's been imported. We have to look within Canada for the reasons for this.

Finance committee  That's right. It's the OECD that makes that forecast that Canada will have the worst productivity growth rate over the next 35 to 37 years.

Finance committee  Undoubtedly. The Bank of Canada gave a briefing on that very subject today.

Finance committee  Unquestionably. Even a bank would say, of course, that's why we're raising interest rates; it is to bring inflation under control.