Canada-China Relations committee  We need exchanges with many different kinds of Chinese. They can be with cultural associations without always fearing that they're connected with the United Front. Those are real people in all of our ridings and neighbourhoods. We need discussion with top scientists and researchers, as far as we can do that, and we need to train them.

Canada-China Relations committee  Mr. Harris, the universities aren't relying on Confucius Institutes, although some universities that don't have the resources to fund language training have used them. At the University of British Columbia, we decided not to partner with the Confucius Institutes. This was partly because they were, as we saw, too connected to the propaganda side of the Chinese government, but it was also because we teach Chinese language in a different way.

Canada-China Relations committee  Well, let me, if I may, respond first. The fundamental problem we're wrestling with, which you hinted at, is in essence the “three Ms” problem: Michael Kovrig, Michael Spavor and Madam Meng. The inextricable nature of that problem has brought out the worst in elements of Chinese behaviour: coercive economic diplomacy and hostage diplomacy.

Canada-China Relations committee  Anti-China sentiment and anti-Chinese racism are not the same thing, but they sometimes hold hands. The danger is that extreme anti-China statements are the bellows that can fan embers. I have Chinese colleagues who are terribly upset at a general portrayal of China as an adversary and of people connected to it as potential spies, as potential agents of influence.

Canada-China Relations committee  The atmosphere of discussion about China now in a number of countries—the United States, Australia, and increasingly Canada—is polarized and angry. We are all reflecting the difficulties of our current bilateral problems with the People's Republic. We're angry about a number of behaviours, but the atmosphere, the vindictiveness of it, the attacks on social media on individuals, particularly those who are coming out in favour of an engagement strategy, is somewhat intense.

Canada-China Relations committee  I look forward to your questions.

Canada-China Relations committee  Is that directed to one of us in particular?

Canada-China Relations committee  Perhaps if Professor Houlden will allow me, I'll take a first crack at that fundamental question. I think that universities—not just our administrations, but our professors—don't want to see directives from the top if they are not part of the discussion. Now, if the Government of Canada decides that China is the kind of adversary that some witnesses have described, that's a blanket....

Canada-China Relations committee  Thank you, Chairman. Thank you for a second opportunity to appear before the committee. Today I will focus on Canadian universities, their importance as the foundation of engagement between Canada and China, and their responses to rising concerns about new national security and safety threats.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  We don't know exactly how many are in that category, but the dual nationality side is going to be a crucial issue, going forward, as people are going to have to start making choices. It first refers to politicians and others in Hong Kong, but it is coming. The Chinese can tighten this one down in ways that will cause fear in the hearts of some.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Perhaps I can try to answer that. A number of countries—not just Canada—have a special interest in attracting high-quality Hong Kong students to their institutions. We can redouble our efforts on recruitment and maybe offer some scholarships. I think something else we're going to need to be doing, particularly in Canada for those who want to leave Hong Kong for political reasons, is to help them in our community colleges and other parts of our educational system, where we can give new facilities for English language training.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  My sense is that there is a comparatively small number of people, of those 300,000, who at this stage are making the calculation to return to Canada in the near future. As things develop, if the economy collapses, if the political situation deteriorates, if there is anything even approximating a Tiananmen Square-style kind of violence, they'll want to leave.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That's a fundamental question. While we are talking about how we are going to assist people from Hong Kong as they come to our shores, the other question is this: What do we do for the people of Hong Kong? The idea that Hong Kong is on fire, that its system is collapsing, I think is misleading.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Parliamentarians have had a busy China day already on genocide and Uighurs. I think we're at a moment when Hong Kong and Xinjiang come up as the examples of where we have deep concerns in Canada about human rights problems. The two situations are somewhat different, and I think that as hard as the situation is in Hong Kong now, there is still room for visibility, for transparency around actions, and for us to work with Hong Kongers to try to strengthen human rights and elements of democracy.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That's a very important question because there are occasional examples of agents of the People's Republic of China, sometimes representatives from Hong Kong, paying special attention to students on our campuses. Some of those contacts are quite understandable, but they need to be totally transparent.