Industry committee  I believe they want to help, but the way the standards were designed makes it very difficult to do so. There needs to be some fundamental changes in how we design STIR/SHAKEN to make that a reality.

Industry committee  I believe they're trying their best but they are working in a system where they have imperfect data. With the telemarketing integrated system we had years ago, it was only based on a phone number. That's really the only point we have. Until we add more points to the system, such as where calls are coming from, like the actual sources, then filtering will be just trying, with our best effort, to pit machine against machine.

Industry committee  On the issue of SIM swapping, yes.

Industry committee  The process right now with the CISC working group of the CRTC is that the concerns of the smaller players are there, although only a few of them are represented. I will say that many of these smaller carriers don't have the resources to participate in these types of forums. They are things that take time from staff, and if you have a company of two or three people, it's hard to dedicate somebody to work on technical standards.

Industry committee  That is correct. The view so far seems to be that we should implement with the big players and then let the small players catch up later. As you know, trying to fix something after you've done it is always problematic.

Industry committee  That is correct; or they would be tied to using a single provider as their wholesale source through which all the numbers would have to go. They would lose the flexibility of choosing which wholesale partners they deal with.

Industry committee  When fully implemented, every call will have a source of at least some level associated with it. There are three different levels: gateway, partial and full. Gateway just says that it knows where the call came from on the network, so that you basically know where it was injected from the Internet side into the phone network side.

Industry committee  That is correct. There are no KYC requirements in telecom.

Industry committee  Good morning, members of Parliament, staff and hearing participants. My name is Matthew Gamble. I am a director of the Internet Society Canada Chapter and I am pleased to appear before you today to speak about fraudulent and nuisance calls in Canada. First, I'll say a few words about who we are.