Government Operations committee  Unquestionably, for the multinational drug companies, much of this does come down to the quality of science, where Canada punches well above its weight. Canada truly outstrips others, despite our size, when it comes to both leadership in and conducting of clinical trials. Where we unfortunately haven't seen that conversion is into the manufacturing of products and services, and those who are much more expert than I am in the econometrics of drug companies and what makes pharma choose a nation to be in.

Government Operations committee  I would say a number of us have raised that. I can't remember the date, but I'd be happy to share with you an op-ed piece I published before the pandemic, in The Globe and Mail, that talked about this very topic. A number of us have been talking about this for a long time as we've seen, for example, pre-pandemic occupancy rates in hospitals of over 110%, and individual front-line providers have given us feedback about the conditions.

Government Operations committee  I would be very optimistic about people willing to engage in the discussion. I recognize there is an opportunity cost for all these initiatives and the question comes up: Is this not right, or what do we not do in order to do more of another initiative? I think this has pointed out to us that we can any longer believe that Canada is immune to this.

Government Operations committee  No, I agree. I think if health is to continue to be mostly operated provincially, then I think there has to be a collaboration between the federal government and the provinces, but I suspect that the stockpile is advantaged by being weighted to the provinces. While I recognize that the Government of Canada does also have responsibility for indigenous persons and persons within the military, one would need to ensure that that could be appropriately managed, be it federally or provincially.

Government Operations committee  Monsieur Drouin, with apologies, I'm not hearing any translation. I'm still awaiting that, but as soon as I get it, I will try to answer your learned question. It didn't come through on my mike, I'm afraid. I'm sorry about that.

Government Operations committee  I am seeing a more rapid enrolment of clients. I would say we're not yet at the point where there are many clinical trials—phase one, phase two, phase three—but we're more into the trials of testing. There are few Canadian studies I'm aware of that are currently under way in randomized controlled trials with interventions that would look at vaccine-like status or serum conversion.

Government Operations committee  I'm an optimist by nature. I hope I've conveyed that in my comments today.

Government Operations committee  I believe, to my knowledge, that I can't think of a single federally funded or supported clinical trial that doesn't encourage rapid sharing. That is different for research funded by the private sector. The majority of clinical trials are, frankly, funded by the private sector.

Government Operations committee  I'd love to hope the latter is true, but I do fear the former might be true, and here's why. I think that when we take outcomes that are sometimes less than desirable—when events occur that have made, for example, a purchasing process less than fair, or questionable in terms of ethics—we put new processes in place to correct those.

Government Operations committee  Yes, sadly. At a time like this, I think everyone has parked that and said, “We know there are some things we need like swabs, ventilators, reagents and personal protective equipment. Go and get them, and we will figure out the best process and follow it solidly." I recognize why the previous model existed and that it was often risk mitigated, but I would certainly encourage us, as this completes, to go back and ask, does the complexity of our process warrant the outcome we're trying to achieve or waste a tremendous amount of time and taxpayer dollars for the illusion of fairness?

Government Operations committee  Especially if we're thinking about trying to encourage Canadian production of materials that are essential during times like these.

Government Operations committee  First of all, when one looks back, there was no error of commission. There may have been some errors of omission. People, with the best of intentions, I think, in retrospect, would ask, “Was there good enough communication between those various levels of government and the private sector around stockpiling?"

Government Operations committee  It's nice to see you again, Mr. Green, and thank you for your service. It's nice to see a leader from Hamilton back in the Government of Canada. I would say that is a great question and great collaboration. At the clinical level, Hamilton Health Sciences and St. Joseph's Health System are both very actively involved at the provincial table and the federal table.

Government Operations committee  I think literally everyone around the world is looking for the same products at the same time. That's number one. Number two, I think, is stockpile management. We probably could do a better job of ensuring that we're swapping out stockpiles. As we went to the stockpile, I think many people, not only in Canada or Ontario, found stale-dated activities, stale-dated masks and other things.

Government Operations committee  Sure. I would say that at the moment the focus of research has really been rapid results and rapid sharing of information. As you know, science is a self-organizing enterprise. People get grants, publish results and share them openly. There's always this debate about whether we should publish our work or not publish it so that it can be patented and result in economic prosperity for the inventor as well as the nation.