Transport committee  The minister, through some of his aides, did respond to some of our concerns. We had subsequent meetings; however, there has obviously been no resolution to date.

Transport committee  I can liken it to a police officer at an intersection where there's no red light or the lights are out. That officer directs traffic around to make sure that everything flows in a reasonable and very safe manner. If you look at air traffic controllers, that's exactly what we do—at a much higher level, because airplanes can't stop in mid-air.

Transport committee  Well, hopefully they will still be around, if they are laid off. If they're not around and have been scooped up by many other air navigation service providers around the world.... As I said before, all trainees, with the exception of a handful, were terminated in September. With regard to our staffing prior to COVID, if you go back to March 12—that's a day we like to use—we were a bit more than 13% short-staffed.

Transport committee  We do, 100%. As I said in my opening statement, we are hopeful that the government will come through with a grant to help enable Nav Canada to not lay off any employees at all, so that we'll be there when the time is right.

Transport committee  Yes, we did meet with Minister Garneau. It was in a community-based meeting through Unifor and Jerry Diaz. Since the new Minister of Transport has taken over, we have not.

Transport committee  He said, “Thank you. We'll get back to you.”

Transport committee  It's quite obvious why I am here today. We have a goal and it's a requirement for Canada to retain the world-class expertise we have. We can't allow for short-sighted decisions with regard to laying off air traffic controllers. As safety is paramount, it will be affected. Without us, believe me, with our staff shortages, economic recovery will be very slow.

Transport committee  It's a good question. With regard to air traffic controllers, I can tell you that, with the ones who have been served notice already, I have already seen several examples of them looking for employment elsewhere around the world. We're very highly skilled. We're in demand, and there's a staff shortage around the world; there has been for at least a decade now, if not more.

Transport committee  Thank you for the question. With regard to Castlegar, it used to be an air traffic control tower. Now it's an airport advisory service. It is on Nav Canada's list to stop providing service there. This is where flight service specialists work. They provide a weather advisory and advise pilots and airport users on what's going on at a specific time.

Transport committee  Yes, it does appear that the Nav Canada management have given themselves bonuses and have decided to lay people off, but the reality is, I think, that the question is much better answered by Nav Canada itself.

Transport committee  I'm sorry. The translation was very short. Can it be repeated, please?

Transport committee  Absolutely. The safety of the general public is paramount to air traffic controllers. Nav Canada's priorities are misplaced. They're not focused on safety or the economic stability of the air navigation industry. We're absolutely committed to protecting Canadian airspace and all those who use it.

Transport committee  The permanent reduction at Nav Canada stands at around 750 people so far. We were at about 5,200, now down to about 4,500, and there are more on the block, as has been mentioned. As for permanent layoffs, it's a little different. Some people took early retirement incentives. I can also advise you that we did have 150 trainees—our future—who were terminated on September 22, so there is nobody coming up behind us old dogs who are going to be retiring at some point.

Transport committee  With regard to the trainees, we do have several in the system—a handful, I'm going to guess, right now. They were kept around and were very close to qualification. It does take upwards of two or three years. In some cases it is less, depending on where you work, but the schooling takes approximately a year, followed by a year of on-the-job training.

Transport committee  Yes, Nav Canada has been utilizing the wage subsidy. The last I heard, Nav Canada was losing approximately $1.3 million per day, and without that subsidy it would be about $1.8 million per day. Could you just repeat the second part of your question?