Science and Research committee  My understanding is that the provinces will potentially develop their own frameworks based on the federal framework. However, they are not themselves directly involved in the framework. Mr. Gaffield may have a better understanding.

Science and Research committee  I believe that the university working group and the folks at the government who are putting those lists together are looking at international comparators and making their lists—which are not public yet—with those in mind. My assumption would be, yes, that's the case.

Science and Research committee  I think absolutely we need to increase the funding that is available to Canadian researchers. I don't believe we need to reduce the international collaborations researchers undertake in Canada. Research is an international enterprise, and I think it's very important we maintain the advantage Canada's had in international research over the preceding years.

Science and Research committee  I have not met Minister Champagne personally, but the university presidents met with him once.

Science and Research committee  Yes, of course.

Science and Research committee  I met with the universities working group, which Mr. Gaffield was talking about.

Science and Research committee  I have occasionally met MPs and other parliamentarians, yes.

Science and Research committee  No.

Science and Research committee  My institution represents the 97 universities. Those universities do apply the national security guidelines, as Mr. Gaffield was referring to. They do their due diligence on all international collaborations in this changing environment. It has become tighter over time. Those guidelines have been very helpful tools for them.

Science and Research committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the invitation to appear before the committee today to discuss the important issue of research safety. I am pleased to have the opportunity to provide an account of the steps taken by Canadian universities to strengthen research security, and to discuss how the government can support the security of research conducted at institutions.

Canadian Heritage committee  The last thing I'd say is what I've said throughout. It is that universities and creators are very much of the same ilk. We all want creators to have a profitable future and a way to a future. We don't believe that going back to a mandatory collective licensing system is the way to achieve that.

Canadian Heritage committee  Thanks very much, Mr. Housefather. I would say that the fact that those jurisdictions do all include fair dealing sort of echoes my previous point that this is an international standard to have. How they apply it does change. I think Ms. Levy's point about whether you have guidelines or whether you have bright lines is a challenging one.

Canadian Heritage committee  I think we understand the side of the creators. It's more the question of the Access Copyright collective looking to have mandatory licences that universities and K-12 schools are compelled to pay when the law of this land, the Copyright Act, says that fair dealing is a user's right.

Canadian Heritage committee  I think it's very important to recognize that, first of all, that $14 number is a recent one. Access Copyright has been asking for $26 in Copyright Board submissions. By reversing that, you give Access Copyright, the collective, a monopoly power over the use of collectives and give them uneven bargaining rights, which they have used in the past in a way that has been very detrimental to the community.

Canadian Heritage committee  It's hard to quantify. As I said, universities are spending more and more on other forms of material and copyright-protected material, so the actual savings, I think, are minimal. I think it's shifting. I've used an analogy to say that we used to all pay $50 a month for our land line and now we pay $50 a month for our cell line.