Government Operations committee  Throughout our history in the federal government, we've merged different departments easily enough. It's not the first time and it won't be the last, so to do it isn't a complication. I will say, though, that in departments it could be perceived as a win-lose, so my comment has always been that unless the Prime Minister orders it to be done, it won't be done.

Government Operations committee  Thank you for the question. Yes, they were. As you're aware, I had a book published on defence procurement, A View from the Inside, and I've been arguing for the last 15 years like a broken record that ministerial accountability will always lead to inefficiency, lack of information and lack of monitoring.

Government Operations committee  Well, I'm here today. I've been at standing committees over a number of years. I talk with ministers. I write about this. I talk about this ad nauseam to people, frankly. Some agree with me; some don't. As I said in my opening comments, it was encouraging to see the government say, “Yes, that's a good idea” in 2019, but apparently in 2021 it's not a good idea anymore.

Government Operations committee  No, it has not. In fact, in an answer to a previous question, I said that when I was there with my colleagues—not just me—we reduced the time frame by 40%. Five years later, it was in excess of what it had been. The process can work as long as you have people who know and understand and who are committed to getting it through the system, but you shouldn't be depending totally on that.

Government Operations committee  In fact, in my book, I lay it all out. The legislative changes are minimal. This thing could be done easily within a one-year period of time. It's not a question of centralization. It's simply saying that from now on, one organization, with one minister, is going to handle defence procurement.

Government Operations committee  I would argue that the lack of a plan, which is what [Technical difficulty—Editor] at the beginning, gets to the main issue. I think [Technical difficulty—Editor] mentioned it too. We do not have.... Can you hear me okay?

Government Operations committee  I think your question is not dissimilar to Mr. Jowhari's question last week about the lack of information. The fact is that you do not have the tools you need to show oversight. You ought to be able to go to a plan that shows, from a capital standpoint, what we have and what we plan to get for the next few decades.

Government Operations committee  I would just add one comment. That's exactly correct. I signed onto the agreement. Dave is exactly right. Having said that, when it comes to ITBs, one would be shocked if the Gripen were not providing significantly more ITBs for Canada. You could argue that they're not the same kind of ITBs and that kind of thing, but the F-35 program is constrained in that it can't guarantee ITBs, whereas Gripen—and if Boeing were there—could guarantee benefits equal to the value of the contract.

Government Operations committee  That's fine.

Government Operations committee  I would make a few comments. First, as David said, we don't know. I'm not sure we really want to know, but that's the way the game is played around the world. I'm not so sure we would want to do a disservice to our industry relative to what's going on everywhere else. I will make the point that the change in how we use ITB to select a winning bidder is, to me, completely flawed.

Government Operations committee  I am still hearing both channels, the English and the French.

Government Operations committee  I can definitely tell you that, when I was with the Department of National Defence, I had no difficulty finding people who could carry out the required tasks at the department. I never found a shortage of competence, whether it be in the army, navy or air force, to help us work with industry and with our colleague departments to get the job done.

Government Operations committee  I have no problem with the same company being successful in different competitions. Good for them, if they can beat the competition openly, fairly and transparently, but I would argue that this is not the case that I think we're talking about. It appears to me that they did that on the F-35, but as we get to talk about the Canadian surface combatants, we might have a vigorous discussion or debate over that.

Government Operations committee  Frankly, you can look at the two programs we're going to be talking about today and be disgusted. Here we are, talking about 12 years before we get our planes. Christian mentioned that. There was no reason 12 years ago, on July 16, 2010, to bypass all proper process and announce sole-sourcing for a jet.

Government Operations committee  I just want to make one comment.