Public Safety committee  My recollection is that the commissioner did not dismiss what I had said in those terms, meaning that she didn't believe that it would have a negative impact or try to provide a different perspective. She immediately linked it to ongoing efforts to bring forward some new legislation.

Public Safety committee  If you're asking for my opinion, I would say that the commissioner felt that the release of the information was more important, in her view, because the focus of that discussion was around the fact that I did not release that information specific to firearms.

Public Safety committee  I've used handwritten notes from the time I was a young recruit in Regina, which would have been in 1990.

Public Safety committee  Notes are used by all police officers. They are not the property of the officer. They are the property of the RCMP. Those notes are disclosable for any type of inquiry, investigation, any kind of legal proceedings. Those notes can be produced at any time. They are kept specific to those officers.

Public Safety committee  Not specifically in relation to where I find myself today.... However, I was concerned about what transpired during that meeting on April 28, 2020. I did make notes that reflect my recollection specifically of that meeting. Also, as I testified earlier, I was fully aware that those notes would become disclosable and that could become an issue at some point in time during a multitude of proceedings like this or the Mass Casualty Commission or other criminal trials related to this investigation.

Public Safety committee  I would agree that emotions were high during the incident, and to this day they continue to be high. That was reflected within that conversation as well, on April 28.

Public Safety committee  Thank you for your question. I do believe that the commissioner, as a seasoned police officer, would understand that certain information should be protected, particularly if there are multiple-agency ongoing investigations. I can't speak for the commissioner; however, I think it's reasonable for me to answer that question in that way.

Public Safety committee  I did, in terms of not just the investigation that was being handled by the RCMP at that time but also, as I stated earlier, multiple investigations by multiple agencies, including international agencies as well. That was made clear to the commissioner. That was made clear to my colleagues.

Public Safety committee  Chair, as I explained in my opening remarks, the commissioner was upset. The commissioner made me feel as if I was stupid and I didn't seem to understand the importance of why this information was important to go out, the information specific to the firearms as it was related to the legislation.

Public Safety committee  Well, of course I'm going back more than two years, since that conversation took place, but I would say that my comments to the commissioner and others who were in that meeting probably lasted at least two minutes of me trying to explain. It was on the heels of that explanation that I was provided information or I was told that this was very important because this was about legislation that was going to make officers and the public safer.

Public Safety committee  That's correct, Chair. I did not have any direct conversations with anyone from government on this issue.

Public Safety committee  To be clear, I haven't actually watched the entire testimony of the minister or the commissioner prior to this. What I can say is that my recollection of the meeting I had with the commissioner is reflected accurately within the notes that I made and the testimony that I provided, both at the Mass Casualty Commission, under oath, as well as before this committee.

Public Safety committee  I think what Assistant Commissioner Bergerman was referring to was any promise being made to the commissioner that we would release that information. That's how I interpret that passage from her testimony. It wouldn't necessarily be about not wanting to release information about the guns to the commissioner, to stay within the organization.

Public Safety committee  I'll refer to my opening remarks. I think it was on November 20, 2020, that the information was released, not by the RCMP but actually via an ATIP request to the Prime Minister's Office. I would assume that it was a briefing note that was prepared for the Prime Minister's Office, which outlined the details on the guns, as well as the name of one of our officers who was actually involved in the fatal officer-involved shooting of Gabriel Wortman.

Public Safety committee  That is correct.