Transport committee  Whether it relates to commuter transportation between key cities and within cities; being able to get our products to market, as I mentioned, on the agricultural side; or the entire renewable energy side, which is going to be one of the largest capital reallocations in human history—we have a ton of opportunity in Canada to do that—I believe that having infrastructure will have long-term benefits for Canadians.

Transport committee  I had many conversations with Michael, and they were not related to or had anything to do with.... Talk wasn't just on the Infrastructure Bank. For the one conversation here, all I recall is speaking with Michael Sabia, and Mark Wiseman being on there. It was a phone line. I didn't see who was in the room.

Transport committee  There was one conversation, which apparently there's an email about. I was not aware McKinsey was in that. What I was aware of was that Michael Sabia had asked for a call, and I took it. Again, I couldn't be there the whole time. I wasn't there at the beginning. I joined in the last 30 minutes—

Transport committee  This is June 23.

Transport committee  No, it's not a reasonable conclusion to draw, because I had a request from Michael Sabia, and maybe they talked to Michael Sabia, or his assistant had called. I have no idea what the background—

Transport committee  I wasn't aware of that. Again, what I would say, differently, is that maybe it was Michael Sabia's secretary who was trying to set up the call and told the McKinsey people. I don't know. That's a very valid outcome. The point is—

Transport committee  Neither of those things are correct.

Transport committee  Yes, we did. We looked. I believe Michael Sabia spoke with—or it was Mark Wiseman; I can't remember—Infrastructure Australia. They have a number of players that have done very well, both at the state level and at the national level. We looked at the U.K. We also looked at what was happening in Europe with various similar initiatives with infrastructure banks or development banks focused on infrastructure.

Transport committee  Yes, I feel very good hearing that the number is close to $30 billion. It's a real movement. Just before this call, I was looking on the website at the number of projects being done and the range and scale of the projects. There are large and small ones across the country. I think that is very encouraging.

Transport committee  Michael Sabia is the one who asked for the call. You have, probably, many thousands of emails to look at in order to see whether there were any other conversations. I don't have access to them. I had conversations with Michael Sabia when he asked. He wasn't a public servant during this time.

Transport committee  That's a good question. I can't remember what the background was for it. I think the focus, we thought, was to try to encourage more private capital to come in to ensure that the projects being done would be sustainable and would be profitable, and we were concerned about subsidies.

Transport committee  Yes. It was, above all, to increase the amount of infrastructure spending that we'd be able to do in Canada and to draw on the private sector to add more capital, but also to ensure that it was standing on its own two feet.

Transport committee  I'm not familiar with the details of that. It may be worth asking someone who's actually at the bank and doing it. I'm not aware of all the—

Transport committee  I'd be very happy to do that. I would also say, on Michael Sabia, that sometimes he would just call. I don't know if I can remember them, but there were a number of conversations. I can't remember how many. I'll try my best to look at it. I'm happy to do that.

Transport committee  No. I wasn't even aware that McKinsey did work at that time with him. Again, what he was asking for was advice on how to improve the productivity of the Canadian economy, how to expand our trade relationships and—