Public Safety committee  I share the perspective with regard to the municipal as well. We have seen foreign interference at all levels. As soon as they have power, politicians at all levels have been approached by foreign states to manipulate them and to control them. My last comment is that provincial governments are investing, collectively, billions of dollars every year in research and development in universities and everything.

Public Safety committee  Definitely. It's a long time overdue. As I reported, I was chief of Asia-Pacific, and I served CSIS for over 21 years. I've been in the game for over 40 years, and I've witnessed—from Mr. Mulroney to Mr. Trudeau—everybody being corrupted, everybody being sort of influenced by agents of influence within their inner circle, so it's more than late.

Public Safety committee  Wrap it up? Yes, sir, I will.

Public Safety committee  Sounds good. The commissioner's office should also have the power to investigate. As we speak, it is only a matter of reporting to the minister, and that is not enough. I applaud the inclusion of education organizations in the bill. For example, even today, an organization like the Alpha group, which preaches a revised and distorted interpretation of Chinese history, managed to get changes in the curriculum.

Public Safety committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the members of the committee for the opportunity to share my thoughts and recommendations on Bill C-70. I'll begin by sharing the premises that guided my analysis. A strong and healthy democracy must be protected by three fundamental concepts: transparency, accountability and independence, free from interference, of dependants.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Definitely. When we allow the collaboration with the police in that perspective, we send the wrong message to the community. That's unavoidable. From that perspective also, we know for a fact that during their stay, some of those Chinese police officers went into doing covert meetings with people.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  That number comes from my experience while I was with CSIS.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I was there until 2000.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  If anything at all, it may have increased. Since the mid-1990s, as I testified before, we've noticed the foreign interference coming from the embassy in China. We found, in the record of Elections Canada that the embassy had given that year—1995—money to both the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes, it has become essential because the people of Canada need to have clear measures and to see that its government is taking the problem seriously. As Mr. Jean just said, all the parties have to work together to deal with this problem, which is now affecting the security of all Canadians.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  The foreign interference act is definitely an important element that needs to be given to law enforcement so they are capable of working on this. Your question has several layers to answer. When we talk about the community, it is our responsibility to protect the community. It is a responsibility of law enforcement, particularly the RCMP, to be capable of getting into the community, receiving grievances from the community, and addressing and hopefully neutralizing the overt actions against the community.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  First of all, it demonstrated the aggression at that point that China decided to send as a message. We have to understand the way the Chinese government functions with its intelligence services, which is almost in direct line with the central committee that basically gives the marching orders for them.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Absolutely. That is to our detriment because we need to come out with results very quickly. Otherwise, the operational priorities will change. That's why, to a certain extent, the communities have been badly served, because we were not capable of accumulating the information for long enough.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  There isn't much time left, but we need to prepare right now to enact a foreign interference act. One of the major problems at the moment for the law enforcement authorities is that it's difficult to investigate these matters and to prosecute those responsible for their wrongdoing.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Absolutely. Right from the get-go, it's a question of communication and to educate the general public at large. I would follow on what Mr. Jean said as well. We need to mature as a country in terms of knowledge of what national security is about and what role every single individual in this country plays in national security.