Justice committee  My understanding is that it's both. There are figures that.... Again, I believe Dr. Myers, who testified, had figures for you in this regard. Certainly, in my experience and in the cases I've done.... The Balfour and Young case is one I litigated in northern Manitoba. It dealt with mostly aboriginal defendants and was a very shocking and eye-opening experience regarding bail challenges.

Justice committee  Every accused is different and every crime is different. There really isn't.... It's not easy to come up with one-size-fits-all justice. We came up with guiding principles, which are likelihood or the confidence that a person will attend in court for their hearing, lack of substantial risk of reoffending and a general public confidence criterion, which judges can apply depending on the facts of the specific case, whether or not it's a strong Crown case, whether or not there are serious allegations, strong evidence and a host of other related factors.

Justice committee  Sure. When somebody is taken into custody, they will often face loss of job, relationship, children—if there's any kind of ongoing family law court proceeding—and housing. One need do no more than read the Balfour and Young decision, which talks about some of the horrible consequences.

Justice committee  I don't know that it will change anything simply because of the fact that a reverse onus bail or a Crown onus bail in, let's say, a gun case really doesn't change the outcome. We'll have to prepare the same, and judges will more or less apply the same principles. If you have somebody who does or doesn't meet a definition that we can establish, a judge or a justice of the peace will still know that person has a lengthy history of prior offending.

Justice committee  I simply rely on the fact that, in Ontario, almost 77%, I believe, of the people who are in our provincial jails have not yet been convicted of any crime. They're people who either are waiting for bail hearings or have been denied bail. Throughout Canada, that number is a little lower, but still it's close to 70%.

Justice committee  It can be both. Certainly, some people charged with very serious crimes are not granted bail, even without a prior record. We can think of people accused of murder and other very serious crimes, who may be denied bail even without a prior record. However, the reality is that people accused of crimes and who have a record or outstanding bail orders....

Justice committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'm sorry about that. I welcome any questions.

Justice committee  Thank you, Chair. Thank you to the members of the committee for inviting the Criminal Lawyers’ Association and for having me address you on their behalf. Our organization represents nearly 2,000 criminal lawyers in Ontario and, indeed, throughout Canada. Many of our members are on the front lines of bail courts every single day.