Government Operations committee  Yes. They were very clear that—

Government Operations committee  That's an excellent question because, in order to have a chance to prevail, you have to be able to avail yourself of due process rights. Otherwise, you're into—what's the expression—tin pan.... The rights that are accorded under the current law are embarrassing. It is an assault on what Canada has historically stood for.

Government Operations committee  If we fail to pass it, it will be a dark day. It will be a national embarrassment. It will be an international embarrassment. It will be, frankly, a failure on the parliamentarians who failed to support it. How do you not support the issue of occupational free speech? It's not credible in a functioning and free democracy.

Government Operations committee  For decades in the States, where most of the litigation has gone on, it has not caused problems. You can't.... How is one supposed to find the time to marshal their case and then start multiple proceedings? That's not the way the real world works. They're going to pursue the avenue that is most effective and most efficient and will give them a chance to prevail.

Government Operations committee  Speak to the issue of jurisdiction...?

Government Operations committee  Obviously, we have to deal with jurisdictional powers—it's constitutional. I think what needs to be understood is that it starts at the top. Once the Prime Minister and his cabinet and then his party and Parliament signal that there's going to be strong whistle-blowing protection for federally covered employees, that starts a cascade effect.

Government Operations committee  Again, thank you very much. Regarding the culture, the most obvious example is the U.S.A. They have been the leaders in this. There is a lot of wrongdoing that goes on in the U.S., but there's a lot of right that goes on there as well. One of them is that there is a strong counter-power.

Government Operations committee  No. I'll give the straight answer on that, and Tom Devine is going to speak to you about this. Any right that is given under a whistle-blowing act should be additive. In other words, it should just be one option for the whistle-blower. Why would you support an act that restricts rights that are inherent?

Government Operations committee  I think it's a complete failure in leadership. I just came back from Ivey business school, where I teach every year. People are deeply involved in this issue. They see it as an assault on them. In the States, Vioxx, which killed 50,000 to 60,000 people, was taken off the market because of Dr.

Government Operations committee  It's Zimbabwe.

Government Operations committee  Thank you for that. Tom Devine was to be here today. He is the legal director at the Government Accountability Project. I have been working with him since 1998. In fact, I chaired the board at the Government Accountability Project. He is really the global leader in drafting legislation, so he will speak to this.

Government Operations committee  They go hand in glove. We need to investigate what the disclosure is about, but you won't have disclosures unless you protect the person who is doing the disclosing. Wrongdoing will remain buried in secrets, in documents and in private meetings if people are not protected. You can't have disclosure or free speech unless it's protected.

Government Operations committee  I'm sorry. I had a very hard time hearing. What is my impression about the bill regarding the protection of what?

Government Operations committee  Thank you for that question and for your interest. I have been involved in this movement for a long time. I am a lawyer as well. I have to say that my initial involvement was very committed to the law. Partly that was my training and I also saw that it was necessary to regulate behaviour through changing the laws.

Government Operations committee  Thank you.