Veterans Affairs committee  We'd be very grateful for an ombudsman. The important thing is to make it real, not window dressing. I agree with you 100%. There are some economies to be saved by the Canadian compromise, instead of putting it completely under DND or making it completely separate. I think there could be two subdirectorates of the same ombudsman that have some sort of independence within that same department.

Veterans Affairs committee  I'll try to be brief so that you can get another question in, Mr. Shipley. I'll do 1 and 7, and then Tom is going to talk about 12. The robust investigative powers are crucial to the ombudsman's office. Expanding upon that, this would give them the powers to call up files or to enter into the files of the department.

Veterans Affairs committee  Unfortunately, I made a mistake. My initial mistake was in saying 1972, but it was 1967. I did some research late last night. By the way, 1967 was the release of the report, and the commission sat between 1965 and 1968.

Veterans Affairs committee  No, not a word, nothing.

Veterans Affairs committee  I think the new Veterans Charter in principle was written with the approach necessary to get some of the CF veterans to make that transition. During the Senate testimony that occurred before they passed it in the Senate, in May of last year, it was pointed out that the charter has a huge gap in not dealing with the veterans who most need help and who are the most disabled.

Veterans Affairs committee  It's true, Monsieur. One of the important things is that we could get the ombudsman off and started, but he or she has to actually start setting up the office, and the practicalities of staff training and hiring would be involved. But the sooner we could take the initial step, which is the model, getting the mandate and legislation into place, the sooner that training can occur.

Veterans Affairs committee  Exactly.

Veterans Affairs committee  The first I heard about it was about six weeks ago, or probably more accurately eight weeks ago, that Keith Hillier had been appointed to the position. I had a chance to have one consultation with him. He appears to be just a super guy and a super manager. But he's also a VAC employee, and I think, with no disrespect to Mr.

Veterans Affairs committee  This also goes back to your question about when the ADM was appointed to this position. Unfortunately, this culture of secrecy not only exists in the pension adjudication and the Veterans Review and Appeal Board; it exists through the entire consultation process, for whatever it may be—the new veterans charter, the bill of rights, or changes to programs and policies.

Veterans Affairs committee  Yes. The minister could write a letter right now. He could set up an interim ombudsman or an interim ombudsman committee to work in conjunction with the committee here. There could be timelines set for milestones for when they would like, let's say, the proposals, first of all. Then, once those proposals were decided on by the committee here and by the PMO or the PCO, the legislation could be drawn up for submission to Parliament.

Veterans Affairs committee  I would immediately appoint an individual. I would take two weeks to find an interim ombudsman or an interim committee to set it up. I would give no more than another 10 weeks for them to draw up their proposals, and then I would let the mechanisms of government go forward. If it's going to be legislated, we obviously need time to write the legislation.

Veterans Affairs committee  I just want to add a quick comment. It's a compliment—I want to compliment the committee. Perhaps we didn't make it clear; we'll also be willing to speak, if you have questions, about the bill of rights, and we can give you a limited response on VIP. I wanted to compliment the committee and echo what Member of Parliament Betty Hinton has said about this committee; that the previous members were very important in bringing about changes to VIP.

Veterans Affairs committee  Wow. Thank you very much, Mrs. Hinton. I appreciate your comments. I will pass on your comments to other veterans I know who have been fighting. I'm sure it will mean just as much to them, if not more. In the attachment that I provided, there are a number of considerations, the minimum considerations, for creating that ombudsman.

Veterans Affairs committee  I think the veterans who have gone overseas and gone to war for more than a century have fought for Canada. We don't go and fight for an individual or for a political party--in spite of the good work of the parties. I think an ombudsman who's going to ensure that this sacrifice is honoured and upheld should report to all Canadians, to Parliament.

Veterans Affairs committee  I don't think an ombudsman would have the same sweeping powers of an Auditor General. We're talking about the sacrifice of some very noble and important Canadian citizens. After years of difficulty in dealing with predecessors of the Veterans Review and Appeal Board and dealing with previous organizations and forms of the department, I think there have to be some powers.