Official Languages committee  You're right; it's minuscule--not a lot of money has been put into the court challenges program, and it would be great if more money could be put into it--but it's a giant if you look at the decisions it has generated. Ask the francophones in P.E.I., Nova Scotia, Alberta, and all the provinces in Canada, who did not have a right to education in their language, if they feel that the court challenges program is a minuscule program.

Official Languages committee  I explained earlier that I was involved in many files regarding the Court Challenges Program across Canada. Turning to the courts was not the first choice of these communities. They are very hesitant to do so. Their preference is to initiate a dialogue with the government, sit down and find a solution.

Official Languages committee  It was in 1992.

Official Languages committee  No.

Official Languages committee  I have been involved in so many cases that I would be hard-pressed to give you an exact figure. I have been involved in cases in virtually all Canadian provinces.

Official Languages committee  No, not Quebec. That is why I said “virtually all Canadian provinces”. I have discussed cases with people in Quebec, but I've never been directly involved in any Quebec cases.

Official Languages committee  There is no such thing as an easy case when you are dealing with this sort of constitutional issue. Despite the best of intentions, such cases still very often end up before the Supreme Court. When we win at the court of first instance, we would be happy for that to be the end of the matter; however, what happens is that the government files an appeal and we have to defend it, and if we win again, they appeal again to the Supreme Court and, once again, we have to defend our case.

Official Languages committee  I have been defending the rights of francophones practically since I learned to speak. Obviously, I have won cases without using the CCP, but they were less complex cases. They did not, for example, involve asking the government to set up schools and comply with legislation.

Official Languages committee  I will begin by saying that it would certainly be a straightforward solution. It would be very simple to say that the government should reinstate the Court Challenges Program uniquely for language rights. Maybe it was a silver bullet that was discovered yesterday, but we have to bear in mind that the decision to abolish the Court Challenges Program infringes both the Official Languages Act, as the Commissioner said, and the Charter.

Official Languages committee  I do not know of any government for whom ensuring its legislation is constitutionally compliant is not a primary concern, unless it is acting in bad faith, as Ms. Buckley said earlier. However, history has shown us that even well-meaning governments that want to have constitutionally compliant legislation, sometimes, and indeed very often, are guilty of infringing the Constitution.

Official Languages committee  I certainly agree with Ms. Buckley's comment that we should not compartmentalize rights. That is very important in the current context. We cannot throw a bone to minority groups just to have them fight each other for it; we cannot say that one group will get special treatment at the expense of another.

Official Languages committee  Thank you, Mr. Murphy. The comments singled out my hometown, Dieppe, and I understand why. With regard to whether these rights are now clear, I agree with what Ms. Buckley said. There are generations of rights. For example, thanks to the many Supreme Court decisions on education in the minority language that have been handed down, some of the section 23 rights are now settled.

Official Languages committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish to begin by thanking members of this committee for having invited me to talk to you about the Court Challenges Program. I have prepared a text that I will present, after which I am open to your questions. Since its creation in 1978, the Court Challenges Program has served to clarify the significant number of legal matters relating to language rights in Canada.