Natural Resources committee  I'll put it this way. I had the opportunity to work with our embassies when I was at the National Research Council--to work in a number of our posts--and they do a terrific job. But I think their capability is stretched when it comes to really understanding technology and what technology may be available.

Natural Resources committee  I'll certainly take a crack at that one. I think there are, unquestionably, other parts of the world that could help us directly with oil sands and that would have a very strong interest in doing so. I could give you three examples, which just came to mind, on the question of finding an alternative to methane as a fuel.

Natural Resources committee  Okay. We've certainly done some math there, and I'm just trying to run some other numbers. I'm questioning the 30 billion barrels a day of world production of oil, but again--

Natural Resources committee  Okay, that's 18 million a day. I'm sorry, I don't have a calculator here.

Natural Resources committee  Okay, that may be. These are current known reserves. Actually, one country that isn't shown on there effectively, and should be, and I apologize for that, is Venezuela. Again, simply to me, it argues to the fact, as I said somewhere else in the presentation, that we need every source of energy we can possibly find.

Natural Resources committee  Mr. Ouellet, we are in entire agreement. The only reason electricity isn't on this list of resources is because it is an intermediary between some of the raw materials. So you see hydro and wind on this list. In fact, all those bottom ones--solar, wind, tidal ocean wave, hydro, and uranium--result in electricity.

Natural Resources committee  That's correct.

Natural Resources committee  Those are good questions, very deep questions. Let me address, first of all, the question of oil upgrading. The impediments to oil upgrading have to do with our customers and where refinery capacity is located in the rest of the country. Alberta says, “We want as much value-added in Alberta as possible.”

Natural Resources committee  Thank you for your question. First of all, let me try to explain in a little bit more detail what I mean by Canada focusing on responsible energy development. We have a huge opportunity to contribute to global sustainability. The fact is that we are a fossil fuel society in Canada right now for the most part, and what I'm trying to indicate here is that by developing the technologies that can mitigate the environmental detrimental effects, all that energy production usage, we cannot only clean up our own act, we can make money at it, because those technologies can be sold to those areas of the world where they can make a lot more difference.

Natural Resources committee  Absolutely. Carbon sequestration can be carried out perfectly successfully. It's been demonstrated. It's being used commercially right now in the Wascana oil fields.

Natural Resources committee  And that's where I say you have to set the right business environment. But it's not for me to say what that business environment is. What I'm saying is that technologically it can be done. To cite wind as an alternative...I've given you the kinds of numbers and the scale you would need.

Natural Resources committee  I'd be delighted to. I totally agree with you that the use of methane natural gas as a fuel in the oil sands is now a major issue. It needs to be looked at; it needs to be addressed. On the other hand, you can't take an oil sands plant that was built five years ago and has legitimate supplies of its own natural gas and then say you can't have it any more.

Natural Resources committee  The gigajoule is a measure of electricity capacity—

Natural Resources committee  And there are alternatives to electrolysis. There's high temperature electrolysis. There are combined cycle or thermal chemical ways of producing the sulphur iodine system for producing hydrogen from nuclear heat. There are many other alternatives. Again, the point is that we're not spending enough time on technology.

Natural Resources committee  I can't give you an absolute number on that, no, but I can give you some feel. Again, I want to come back and say that I'm arguing for technological innovation as opposed to science and technology. There is a bit of a difference. David Keith is one of the foremost people in the area of greenhouse gas emissions and concerns in Canada, in my opinion.