Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I just want to reinforce what Monsieur Tremblay said a few minutes ago, as well as what Mr. Marston has just said. The more one believes that Canada has a stellar reputation in terms of human rights protection, the more I would think we would want to sign on to this protocol, because it demonstrates that in fact we hold a very high standard, or a standard at least, which if we are not meeting, we certainly aspire to.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I would say that two specific things be requested that the Department of Justice report on, and those would be the steps that have been taken to engage the provinces and territories in this regard and the potential financial implications, if any.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Ms. Larochelle is more expert on this than I am, and Monsieur Tremblay may have—

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  We certainly hear rumours. And it would be our recommendation that this committee could actually assist this process by asking the Department of Justice, which has carriage of the implementation of adherence to international instruments, to actually take steps to engage the provinces and territories and determine what are the financial needs and other mechanisms, if there are mechanisms needed in some of those areas, to in fact obtain that information and then be able to make the decision accordingly.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I would suggest two things to you. One, a mechanism like this and an independent international body that might visit could make an assessment that might assist the government in this not being seen as torturing. That would be one point. Secondly, in my experience the people who work in corrections—senior managers, front-line correctional officers—are all in general agreement that those situations are not beneficial.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I'm not aware of the particular discussions. It would be my understanding that there would have been some discussions of this nature. So I'm certain that you would be privy to those, even if I'm not. Yes, I think there need to be some of those discussions. Certainly there are mechanisms that exist now, in terms of heads of corrections, in terms of policing authorities, and in terms of federal-provincial-territorial discussions and meetings that regularly take place.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  There may be some financial implications. I would suspect, though, that the current mechanisms that exist, such as the Correctional Investigator, the policing bodies, and some of the other ones that Monsieur Tremblay spoke about, already do some of that work. But providing an opportunity for more proactive intervention to go on in things like surprise visits and being able to look at what's happening might actually save Canada money by preventing wrongful imprisonment suits on matters of torture.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I think you might want to look at who's actually in our segregation cells. I used to work with young people and with men. In the last fifteen and a half years I have worked with women. The majority of the people in isolation are people who have mental health issues. It's a form of torture, and part of the issue to be looked at is the Canadian government's responsibility in that respect.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I'm sorry that I can't shed more light on why we haven't. I would echo what Mr. Tremblay has said. I'm holding here a copy of a letter that was sent from the minister in response to a submission that our organization, Mr. Tremblay's, and Amnesty International made. It expresses support in principle for the optional protocol, indicates our involvement in ongoing discussions, and indicates that we support the fundamental elements of the optional protocol.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Suffice it to say that as issues continue, we continue to raise concerns. As recently as their most recent report, the Correctional Investigator in this country also raised concerns about the issues of human rights violations and discriminatory treatment of prisoners.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  At that time we recognized, as did the United Nations, the importance of ensuring that the protections that are available by virtue of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights be extended and be protected by the ratification of the optional protocol to the United Nations Convention Against Torture.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  First of all, I want to thank you very much for inviting us to appear today. Maître Lucie Joncas sends her regrets. She was due to come, but due to scheduling difficulties couldn't make it. I'm very pleased, however, that Maître Dominique Larochelle is here to join us. Maître Larochelle, in addition to being the president of the board of directors of the Société Elizabeth Fry du Québec, is also a legal aid lawyer in Montreal and knows this area well.

Justice committee  With respect to the question you asked, Mr. Quist, I think that is precisely the point I was trying to make. You're putting forth this bill as though it will solve all those issues, and in fact it won't. It deals with a very specific issue. If your concern is the sexual exploitation, the abuse of children, then there are many other issues that need to be targeted as well.

Justice committee  Just very briefly, I would support everything Ms. Jennings said there. Rather than repeat it, I'll just say we support it. In the alternative, our first position would be that rather than throwing another law at this issue, targeting the real concerns and implementing what laws do exist would be our first priority.

Justice committee  I'm sorry, my French is not—