Transport committee  Yes. It's a very new program. I can't answer your question now, but I will get back to the committee.

Transport committee  Well, many people have called for that, but the government replies that it's the nature of national security not to tell people if they're on the no-fly list. I believe even if you're stopped in the airport, as my colleague just said, you will not be told exactly why you are stopped or why you can't take the plane.

Transport committee  Yes, that's absolutely the problem, and this has been pointed out. It has happened that people who have gone through the office of redress in Canada have not had a very satisfactory experience, from what we understand.

Transport committee  We are not aware of significant cases of correction under the Canadian office of redress, but I'm not quite up to date on that. We're doing an audit of that next year—we did one last year—so I'd be able to tell you a bit more in the future about how that's working. It had just started to work when we audited it, so I don't remember that there were conclusive results on that particular issue.

Transport committee  Some of them, as was mentioned, may be able to, certainly in the case of a false positive. Many of us have the same name as somebody somewhere else in the world. If you can clear that up, then you can obtain redress. But if it's something that has to do with your actions or your associations or something, then you may never be able to clear it up.

Transport committee  I don't have them in mind right now. I'd have to get back to you.

Transport committee  Yes, my recollection is there are so few that it's hard to draw clear conclusions. There is some anecdotal evidence, including a study done by some unions and civil liberty groups, that people of certain ethnic origins have been stopped so many times that, to all intents and purposes, they avoid flying now.

Transport committee  Yes, they are the specialists, but errors can occur.

Transport committee  I was quoting—I hope accurately—Mr. Justice Major's inquiry into the Air India disaster of 1982. In that, looking at various aspects of aviation security, on one hand he noted that there has been no conclusive proof up till now that this constant and intense scrutinizing of passenger name information against watch lists has prevented further airplane disasters.

Transport committee  I don't think it goes to the heart of my concerns, which are about giving information to a government database in another country. That's the basic issue.

Transport committee  But there's a difference in power. Air Canada doesn't have the same power over Canadian citizens that the United States may have over Canadians who find themselves in the U.S., or flying over it, or even being extradited. Air Canada doesn't have that power. But to answer your question, I think it would be an excellent idea.

Transport committee  Perhaps my advisor has received an explanation as to what that would entail, not me personally.

Transport committee  By publicly, do you mean between public entities?

Transport committee  Honestly, we haven't considered that question in detail. I would tend to say that this is the kind of thing that is usually left either to regulations or to government policy.

Transport committee  Yes, we understand.