Environment committee  On the one side, you had the Europeans who were insisting on 1990, which was the year used in the Kyoto Protocol, and on the other you had countries like Canada that not only included 2006 as the reference year in its climate change plan but that also persuaded the other countries to adopt that position. When an individual has worked hard in the past and decided to tighten his belt, then decides to pay back part of his debt, the banker may well be willing to renegotiate, but would it not be more respectful and more fair to recognize the efforts made by countries and corporations in the past?

Environment committee  Have either of you been able to reconcile the notion that the minister has said internationally that we're going to reduce our absolute greenhouse gas emissions by 25% to 40% from 1990 levels—per the document he signed on to and approved in Bali—with a domestic plan that no single third-party observer believes can achieve even a 20% cut by 2020 by using intensity targets and 2006 as the baseline year? As two experts who have been around this climate change process for a long time, can you help us to understand this? Were you able to reconcile the government's domestic plan and its ultimate agreement with the final declaration that came out in Bali?

Environment committee  Thank you. Good afternoon. As a bit of context, I run a small business here in Toronto. We provide services to a utility sector here in Canada and in the United States. We work with Manitoba Hydro and B.C. Hydro. We have 30 utilities in Ontario and in the United States developing conservation-demand management programs, and we also do consulting for large corporations such as Home Depot, General Motors, Winners, and HomeSense.

Environment committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will give my presentation in both French and English, although we have well-qualified interpreters here with us. I attended the Bali Conference as an adviser. I was accompanied by Elizabeth Dowdeswell, the former assistant deputy minister at Environment Canada and former director of the United Nations Environment Program; by Mary Simon, one of the most prominent figures in Canada's far north; and by Ian Morton, who will be speaking later.

Environment committee  There are even some members who do not really believe the science around climate change. In your opinion, is the science around climate change reliable? Can we say today that climate change will truly have a concrete impact?

Environment committee  This government has assumed, as has the previous government, that there is a direct correlation between climate change and smog, between greenhouse gases and smog. This assertion has been made time and time again. The Canadian public has accepted this assertion. We've heard scientific evidence to claim that assertion.

Environment committee  Greenhouse gases influence climate change, if we take that as a premise. Climate change influences different components of the environment, and then it's through those changes that you might have direct health effects.

Environment committee  How can we be making that statement, that we have a tough plan, when the head of the United Nations climate change body has doubts about our plan? Al Gore doesn't think it's so tough. What's the basis on which we're saying that it's a tough plan? Is that just spin, or is there some objective measure behind it?

Environment committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If there is one thing that we must not do in this climate change action plan, it is to take action on a silo basis. If we do not want to do this, we have to ensure that the Department of Environment and the Department of Natural Resources sit around the same table.

Environment committee  Okay. There has been a lot of to and fro as to what programs on climate change have been cut and what new or different programs have been announced. Do we have a total cost-benefit analysis of how much in total has been cut versus how much in total is being spent, specific to climate change?

Environment committee  That's not a worry. Due to the short notice, I don't have a long presentation to make. Climate Change Central is a not-for-profit corporation in Alberta, and its mandate is to reduce Alberta's greenhouse gas emissions. We report to a board of directors and concentrate our efforts on energy efficiency and conservation around new technology, emission offsets, and communications and outreach to the public.

Environment committee  But if we have three or perhaps four parties in Parliament today that really want to do something about the climate change issue, this is the time right now to put together some kind of legislation that sets a regulatory constraint or a financial penalty that starts tomorrow and is graduated to climb over time.

Environment committee  I was away when that discussion on future business was held. Since that time, the government introduced its regulatory framework on climate change. New subjects have come up which, in my view, might justify us changing the agenda established a few weeks ago. These are not minor issues. We are talking here about the national climate change plan of the government.

Environment committee  Can you help us understand what role your sector will play in the government's climate change plan?

Environment committee  As you know, climate change per se and the environment are not just Environment Canada's responsibility. There are other departments involved with us on this. In terms of the priority of climate change, I can tell you that as a public servant I am here to deliver on the government's priorities.