Information & Ethics committee  Thanks. I'll speed through this quickly. I apologize for not having submitted my remarks in advance, but I'm happy to distribute them now. Let me just go through this quickly. My name is Michael Geist. As you heard, I'm a law professor at the University of Ottawa, where I hold the Canada Research Chair on Internet and E-Commerce Law.

Public Safety committee  If I might just add, the more difficult challenge we face in developing the appropriate policy is ensuring that all stakeholders are heard. Certain groups are well able to ensure that their voices are heard. They have the dollars, the lobbyists, and so on. There are stakeholders on all sides, whether on the industry side, or that of some of the copyright collectives, or of the industry associations often representing foreign interests.

Public Safety committee  It's an interesting example of the timelines and shift in perspective on some of these issues. That was proposed fairly recently and made its way through the European Parliament quite quickly. Over the last two to three weeks, thousands of Europeans signed petitions, calling on the European Parliament not to adopt that particular provision.

Public Safety committee  The Supreme Court of Canada has already tried to make the call, arguing that we have fair dealing under the current Copyright Act, which, it argues, ought to be interpreted in a broad and liberal manner such that even copies, in certain circumstances, of full articles would be seen as fair dealing.

Public Safety committee  I believe some of our trading partners do have stronger border measures. The United States would certainly be one such example. The question becomes whether or not they're effective. As I noted, one only needs to walk down Canal Street in Manhattan to recognize that this is not exactly keeping counterfeit goods out of the country.

Public Safety committee  Yes, they have changed their mind. Initially they wanted it excluded. The sense was that the civil remedies, I suppose, might well allow them to go after the potential proceeds as opposed to the Crown itself through proceeds of crime. They now have, obviously, before that committee suggested that was something they'd like to see changed.

Public Safety committee  That's a loaded question. The practical effect has probably been a good one in Canada. The perception is that Canadian Heritage and Industry Canada bring different perspectives to the table. Given the complexity of copyright, having two departments seeking to work through some of those issues probably leads us to a better result in many instances, than if one side alone were given the mandate.

Public Safety committee  I have just a very quick intervention. I'm certainly sympathetic to those who see the potential for civil remedies to try to deal with this issue, but I think it's important to recognize that it's necessary to be somewhat cautious even there. In the United States they have statutory damages, creating the prospect of damages of $150,000 per infringement.

Public Safety committee  I think if we had the appropriate counterbalances to ensure that what they are confiscating is counterfeit, perhaps it would be helpful. As I think we already heard, though, that strikes many as a difficult burden to put on border security. I note, in many instances, that the umbrella of counterfeiting begins to include things like grey market.

Public Safety committee  It's already illegal to go into a—

Public Safety committee  No. It is an infringement of copyright law to make an unauthorized copy of that movie. Full stop. If you go ahead with the intent to distribute, as we are led to believe is occurring, that then brings both potential jail time and penalties. I would argue that we already have legislation to deal with this particular issue.

Public Safety committee  I think a lot of those points are really terrific. There are people out there who argue that counterfeiting forces people to innovate when they're facing competition from both legitimate competitors and otherwise. I'd also note that this notion that Canada is not innovative, or somehow we're going to suffer from innovation because of our current state of affairs, simply doesn't give enough credit to the amazing creativity and innovation we already see.

Public Safety committee  That's a terrific question. I'm always glad to have people read my blog. I thought it was a very powerful presentation from the witnesses, and my sense was that the committee was very sympathetic. If the government was to move forward with health and safety issues, as I say, I think we first need to better understand where the shortcomings in the law are.

Public Safety committee  Thanks. It's an interesting comment. I'd raise a couple of things, since it's a theme that has recurred with a number of people who have spoken. First, this notion that people who buy fake Louis Vuitton handbags are going to cheat on their taxes strikes me as a dramatic stretch for which there's absolutely no evidence at all.

Public Safety committee  I think the practical reality is that these are not people who are necessarily more likely to commit crimes, or the like. I just don't see any kind of evidence for that at all. I do think there are some people whose respect for certain sorts of laws have diminished. Let's take intellectual property, for example.