Veterans Affairs committee  And also, sir, just to add to that, I believe there was testimony in 2005 from Mr. Leduc, who stated who was involved then, as well.

Veterans Affairs committee  Did you get that?

Veterans Affairs committee  He was just saying--correct me if I'm wrong--that you were implying that Keith Hillier doesn't want an ombudsman.

Veterans Affairs committee  Yes, we are for an ombudsman.

Veterans Affairs committee  I'm sorry, I'm not getting the English translation.

Veterans Affairs committee  I don't have a legal background, but I've looked at the testimony that's been presented through this committee, and I would say there are two views. In the best of all worlds, it would be great if they had the power and the mandate to report to Parliament, but it's going to take a long time.

Veterans Affairs committee  I'll try to answer that the best I can from my limited knowledge. I think an ombudsman reporting to the minister has other avenues if the minister doesn't agree with the ombudsman's direction. I think we've seen that with the DND ombudsman where you can go public. I think that's why maybe it would be better to have a legislated ombudsman who can report to the minister, versus a mandated one, but I'm not an expert in that field.

Veterans Affairs committee  The ombudsman?

Veterans Affairs committee  It's a very big thing. We know the serving members are used to having an ombudsman in the Canadian armed forces, which has been very successful. Don't get me wrong, the VAC staff are doing wonderful work and the best they can on the front lines, but sometimes veterans are caught, because of policy and the bureaucratic structure of VAC.

Veterans Affairs committee  Excuse me, but did you say that in the last seven months there was consultation?

Veterans Affairs committee  There has not been consultation in the last seven months. Actually, we just came from a meeting that, coincidentally, had been set up by Veterans Affairs just prior to this meeting. That's the only consultation we truly have had on the bill of rights and ombudsman since April.

Veterans Affairs committee  That's true, yes.

Veterans Affairs committee  I'll say a little bit on that, and then I think Larry can add more to it. Veterans Affairs has to realize what organizations truly represent veterans. There are many organizations out there that, due to demographics, have membership populations that are changing. Some organizations have a very large membership of civilians who never wore uniforms, and then there are other organizations that are in touch with the serving members and modern-day veterans.

Veterans Affairs committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll start with my opening remarks, and I apologize that they're not translated. They've been given to the clerk, and he will translate them as you go forward. Mr. Chair, respected committee members, I want to thank you for inviting us here to speak today.