Public Accounts committee  Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair. We have the guidance that we issued in 2006, prior to the departments and agencies developing their sustainable development strategies. It was somewhat specific in the case of their treatment of buildings and treatment of fleets. In regard to buildings, I'd just mention the fact that we were asking them to reduce their GHG emissions from buildings by 31% relative to 1990 levels.

Public Accounts committee  Those were two quite definite targets. We did not have definite targets in the case of greening procurement. It was more aspirational towards departments to green their purchases of goods and services, working on it with PWGSC as we were working with suppliers to determine what could be available in the market and what was realistic for departments to buy.

Public Accounts committee  NRCan, or that department, is the repository of a lot of expertise in the area of energy efficiency and greenhouse gas emissions. They are our best experts in the federal government in that area. We rely in large part on their expertise to advise us on what can be achieved across federal departments, what's realistic and what are good ambitious goals to be achieved in different areas, and whether the technology exists to make good progress, and if so, at what rate.

Public Accounts committee  I think that number would not include leasing real estate, sir. We have some numbers here—thanks, Ellen. The way we break it down, real property would be included. It's actually more like $21.5 billion, the total number I'm working from, and from that there are real property expenditures.

Public Accounts committee  The general thinking was that for a certain amount of the money we spend on goods and services, there could be a lot to be gained by using our volume to influence the market and the choices available, yes--not for, I would say, the $21.5 billion, but to figure out, through analysis, where we could make an impact with our buying.

Public Accounts committee  That's right.

Public Accounts committee  I would say we have significant scope to make progress with the tools we have now. I'm quite happy to talk to the commissioner's report. We recognized his comment that we hadn't made satisfactory progress in some areas, and I think we are convinced that we can make more progress in those areas as it is.

Public Accounts committee  That's a good question. It would include many purchases related to maintaining buildings.

Public Accounts committee  On procurement, sir?

Public Accounts committee  It spends about $20 billion on goods and services in total.

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, thank you for this opportunity to appear before you to discuss the March 2008 report of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development on greening government operations. The audit addressed two separate but related aspects of greening operations: the guidance that was provided to departments for preparing their 2007 to 2009 sustainable development strategies; and greening commodity management.