Public Safety committee  I'd really have to give that some thought. I can see pros and cons to it. Even in policing, we have many officers who are not carrying guns on the outside of their clothing. Their guns are hidden. Undercover officers carry guns, and if faced with a dangerous situation in which they have to show the gun and take action with the gun—whether they actually have to fire it or not—they very quickly identify themselves as police.

Public Safety committee  It's a very valid question, sir, but I'd only be guessing about the percentage of how many would or would not pass. Certainly our benefit in policing is that we give them that training at the front end and then continue it throughout their career, on a regular basis annually. To take people who are 20- or 25-year border service security folks and train them would be a bit of a challenge at that front end.

Public Safety committee  I'm a little confused by the potential for accidents. If a customs officer is ultimately going to pull the firearm, the other person has to have done something. A CBSA officer pulling out the gun for no reason is an issue you'd have to deal with through legislation or disciplinary procedures or whatever.

Public Safety committee  It's a fair statement to varying degrees, depending on where you're actually policing and the type of area. It would be more so on the streets of Toronto than it potentially would be in rural Ontario. Certainly there is a culture that develops, and there's a mindset of being very cautious and being very observant.

Public Safety committee  In part I could, without a doubt. I just came back from the Dominican the night before last, and coming through Toronto airport, I dealt with CBSA folks who were in the building just looking at luggage in a very controlled environment, where people had gone through metal detectors, etc.

Public Safety committee  The primary objectives would be to protect members of the public, number one, and yourself and your fellow officers, number two. It would be just sitting there watching, being observant and looking for potential threats, looking for people who may be smuggling contraband. That's obviously their main role.

Public Safety committee  Really, ma'am, if there are people around us, it's never an ideal setting, but largely, in any municipal or OPP jurisdiction, there are other people around when you have to do it. As Mr. MacKenzie said, situations are very seldom one on one.

Public Safety committee  I couldn't testify as to what the level is, sir, but it's certainly to some acceptable level, yes.

Public Safety committee  That's correct.

Public Safety committee  That's right. They're trained in a variety of things, from observation skills to profiling individuals in vehicles, as well as in some kind of hand-to-hand types of arrest techniques, etc.

Public Safety committee  That's correct, sir.

Public Safety committee  Yes, they are.

Public Safety committee  They are in malls, changing money at ATM machines, etc.

Public Safety committee  That's correct.

Public Safety committee  In eastern Ontario, we have Prescott and Lansdowne. Cornwall, of course, is actually the responsibility of the City of Cornwall, but whenever anything significant really happens at the port of Cornwall, the OPP are there as well. The Cornwall police are not that large an organization, so we go in and help.