Status of Women committee  Actually, what we recommend is an increase in the cap to $60,000. That would make a difference. You could phase that in, because the current cap is very low compared to how incomes have moved over the past number of years. If you move to $60,000, 25% isn't bad. It would be wonderful if we could go to 50%, but at least move the cap higher.

Status of Women committee  The last point is one that's been around a long time. The example we use is the Ontario pension insurance plan. It is very limited, but at least it protects workers where companies have gone bankrupt. I'm thinking of many of the workers in the lumber industry, Nortel, you name it; their pensions are at risk.

Status of Women committee  I forgot to answer the question on his plan on the guaranteed annual income. I couldn't find any current information. What I have is a report that came out in 2005, where Statistics Canada reported the inflation rate between 1992 and 2004, and they were looking at the average inflation rate for seniors only households.

Status of Women committee  I didn't say standard of living. I think what I said was we should ensure they're not below the low-income poverty line. They shouldn't be in poverty. On the inflation issue, Statistics Canada did an analysis about four years ago that looked at the different inflation effects on different segments of the population, and they found that the seniors' population, the older population, had a somewhat higher inflation rate than other demographic groups in the population.

Status of Women committee  Yes. That indeed is what we are recommending. We think it is the only way to go. Private pension plans can be wound up. Private pension plans and pensioners go to the end of the line in the bankruptcy of their employer or the shutting down of their employment place. The public plan, so that the burden is carried by everybody in the community, is a far better and far safer way to go.

Status of Women committee  Yes, we would. Defined benefit plans are clearly the better way to go. We have noticed over the years that women have benefited from this. They have become the majority of workers in the public sector, and that's where you're going to find union negotiated defined benefit plans.

Status of Women committee  The trouble is the fact that they're living longer. That penalty is going to be significant the older you are, because that's going to last for the rest of your life. Therefore, our concern is that people who become unemployed at 60 are not going to be employed in the labour market.

Status of Women committee  Well, I hate to be biased, but the trouble is, given women's low income across the board in Canada--the average low income for women--it would be important to see that maybe there could be special recognition for the difficulties women face at the age of 60, though, on the other hand, there's growing unemployment for men, and they too are going to be paying a penalty.

Status of Women committee  On the other hand, the CPP is in good shape. It has done well. The change in how it's invested has brought a great deal of resources to the CPP. I think if we regularly review, as we did not that many years ago, we could look at the cost now for the CPP and then go back and see what the implication is, how much would have to change once the unemployment level has dropped and the conditions of older people have improved.

Status of Women committee  We responded to the Harry Arthur pension commission in Ontario. They had a very interesting suggestion of an alternative plan that could focus on workers who are at minimum wage, who work for small employers where there are no options for pension plans. There can be a way of looking at that large group of workers and maybe developing another form of pension plan that would at least give them something.

Status of Women committee  That's a difficult question. Clearly, single, unattached older persons have very high poverty rates. For single-parent female heads of families, it's a huge problem for them. I'm sorry, I'm giving you a number of people, but again, for our aboriginal communities it's a very high issue, and the new group--new to us--is, we believe, the immigrant population, especially those from the racialized communities.

Status of Women committee  Well, if you go back to the fact of their intermittent access to labour, to the labour market, what if we had an additional plan that targets people at the very low end of the scale? The other thing that would help all people facing poverty in their old age is a significant increase to old age security and to the guaranteed income plan.

Status of Women committee  I'm sorry, but I didn't get the first part of the question.

Status of Women committee  Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I preface my remarks by saying the context of what I am saying is based on the fact that women live longer than men. Please keep that in mind. Here are our comments on the OAS/GIS/CPP/QPP. Yes, we agree the depth of poverty has been reduced. However, if you have to live on OAS and GIS, you are in the depths of poverty.

Status of Women committee  Yes, here's hoping.